his dps are even lower before compared to his state before buff
the only buff he got was deflect cancel
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genji before the nerfs couldn’t keep with most of the dps becuase he did little dmg against all the aoe healling in the game (bap,moira,brig) and how he got countered by heros that required little skill for more value (moira and brig). i believe that he needed the deflect buffs but if brig and moria were nerfed so that they needed more skill to get more value, genji wouldn’t have need the spread or dmg buff in the first place.
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he felt underwhelming because he got powercrept just like most of the heroes such as doom, sorta tracer, zen, lucio, etc…
he didnt need buffs. the other heroes need nerfs.
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Literally the only buff i would’ve wanted for him before he got all these buffs was 28dmg->30dmg for shurikens. That’s it. The fire rate buff was in line with how the rest of the game is being played now. Mccrees fire rate is crazy fast, and the recovery time for ashe makes it so smooth and streamlined. Reverting from that polished version of genji, being able to transition from melee to mb2, just feels bad regardless of how it affects his dps output. I’ve played genji since season 2, fluctuating from diamond to gm, and he has was absolutely outclassed by everything in the game before he got buffed.
But that’s not to say i agree with the buffs. The reflect change was completely unnecessary, and the spread reduction was nice but drastically lowered the skill floor of the character, making him get way too much value for less effort. I’ve been begging blizzard, along with other genji players, for around a year now to simply give him 30dmg shurikens. Get rid of reflect buffs, get rid of the spread buff, and even reduce ult charge/nerd blade altogether and he will finally be able to COMPETE with characters that completely outclass him. I just don’t see how it’s at all a feasible argument that he was “healthy” before all of this unless you had a constant mercy pocket.
I just really do not understand how anyone could even begin to argue that he needs to be nerfed further.
Would you like it if he kept every buff e cept for the deflect and spread but lost nanoblade?
Have you ever played in a game where people know how to counter genji? Like you can make arguments that put him in a balanced light on paper, but in actual games he gets clapped by any form of CC, even during nanoblade. It was different with these most recent buffs because he was able to confirm kills and get out, but now that his fire rate is back to its trash tier origins and the damage buff is reverted, the damage he puts out is virtually meaningless when you consider the amount of sustain and burst healing that dominates the game right now.
And that’s without considering the countless CC abilities and ults that can shut him down pretty dang consistently. If he had the 30 damage shurikens and fire rate, and got rid of the reflect and spread buffs, he would be able to put out meaningful damage DEPENDING on how well the player can aim. The current spread just trades out the need to aim for easier shurikens to hit that do next to nothing. 30 damage shurikens allow him to reach super meaningful damage thresholds, and if the spread was back to normal, it would actually take effort and skill to make use of it. I really don’t understand how this is an issue for everyone. Is everyone just incapable of countering him? You can’t throw any stuns/damage towards him that will make him reduce his value in order to survive? I just really don’t get how people haven’t yet been able to counter him consistently here. Yet, no one complains about ashe dominating the meta. Interesting.
Genji players think Genji is never allowed to do anything and gets stopped by so much as a headwind against him. Non-Genji players think Genji can slip through all attacks and has a get-out-of-jail card for every situation.
It’s entirely based on perspective and when I try to judge broad opinions, in general, I think these perspectives even out. I don’t think Genji is nearly as unstoppable as people make him out to be, but at the same time, he’s quite obviously a powerhouse that controls games – even before these buffs, it wasn’t that uncommon to see a good Genji callout gaps in CC and make amazing plays. He’s generally been a fair hero when outside the meta limelight, and buffing him in so many ways basically at once was a really bad direction. Like I said, he never needed additional raw firepower, but consistency to make his current firepower feel threatening and so that he can line up his actions more smoothly.
I don’t consider the spread buff to be “trading out skill,” it’s still asking for Genjis to aim properly and what it intelligently does directly is enhance Genji’s effective range. So if CC is really Genji’s killer problem, then shouldn’t we be praising the buffs he gets to keep? Extra Deflect means he can cover his hide for longer, and being able to cancel it manually without a weird second-hand way of doing it gives him more control over an engagement – more control over how he responds to CC. And in exchange for raw damage, Genji gets to play at slightly longer ranges, meaning he can be more of a nuisance without worrying about some of the strongest CC effects being readily available to whack him the moment he tries doing what he’s meant to be doing.
I disagree he’s getting the worst trade of buffs here, these all seem to be exactly what the hero needed without overbloating his potential like it clearly had. You say his damage increase helped him get into important damage thresholds, but I gotta say, “one good right click + a melee for a kill” is not a threshold that I think Genji needs to be at. That exact interaction, I’d say, is what made Genji so unhealthy after these buffs, being able to drop onto most targets and instantly slice them out of existence was a huuuuge decrease to his TTK, it made for pretty imbalanced interactions. On top of the fact that the faster rate of fire meant he was given ample opportunities to confirm this, I mean, it’s just too lethal for a hero that was already provably lethal.
Literally right before this new age Genji meta, Ashe was a consistent talking point. There were threads about her basically everyday.
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ok? 2 ults got the genji two picks? genji has a long sword on top of the fact that his arms are holding the sword, giving it some range? how is this relevant lmao
Healthiest in terms of being underwhelmingly healthy? Sure. If you happen to be a support player? Probably pre-buff Genji was a breath of fresh new air, not getting dove 24/7.
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Not here. Not about Genji.
Try reddit. Devs read stuff there. People there also understand the game better.
This gave me a good laugh. If healthy means a throw pick, then I guess so. He was called weak by many, I believe KarQ even had him rated at like a C- or D+ on a hero viability chart. Why do you think a lot of people switched to Doom?
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Genji fire rate revert makes me think of when Baptiste’s fire rate got reverted.
I feel your pain, fellow gamers.
The one shot right click + melee still existed with genji, you dash and it’s an insta kill. Granted 30 damage means he doesn’t need to dash, but it’s irrelevant when dash resets anyway. I don’t like the spread buff because it takes away from his versatility. People can now spam right click from ranges that used to be useless and land shurikens. If the damage stayed at 30 damage with no spread buff, his left click would still be used, and from what i see with people abusing op genji is literally just spamming right click always. I’ve practiced for hours learning how to consistently land a genji left click from most ranges. I’m trying to say that this spread buff is just a lazy cop out that rewards less effort and skill
Besides, reflect means virtually nothing if you’re up against literally any type of stun. The reflect wasn’t his issue that kept him down either. It was always the raw damage. And when you say genji makes amazing plays when gauging when CC is used, that’s the sign of an overall skilled player that can literally do everything and MORE on any other hero than genji because they have the game sense to do so. This isn’t a genji specific argument, and as you climb people begin saving CC for genji. Other heroes will do his job better, and he’ll be considered a throw pick again (which he was above masters unless you’re literally a pro genji player). His buffs were too much, but goodness the nerfs were outright brain dead and i still am not hearing any argument that saves him from being absolute trash tier with these nerfs. You can analyze how it works on paper, but in game even OWL players can’t make him work anymore from what i’ve seen. Unless, of course, he’s a nanoblade bot. That’s all these nerfs did. He’s a useless blade bot again.
This is a huge difference between interactions. In one instance, Genji needs to have an ability handy to even complete the combo, while in the other instance, he can freely use the ability to get into position, still get a kill, and then get that ability back. The combo is entirely different in how it operates and what Genji is asked to do/have.
Any buff that makes a hero stronger is, realistically, rewarding less effort and skill. Adding 2 damage per shuriken rewards Genji for less output required, but that’s not a lazy cop out?
I’ve not once implied he needed the Deflect change, as if that was his biggest concern. But by buffing Deflect, they gave Genji stronger control over his situation and brought his sustain into an area more in line with other damage heroes. The extended duration gives him more cover and lets him stay involved for that much longer, and the ability to cancel it is just a quality of life change, every other hero with a defensive ability like this, such as Wraith Form or Cryo, can cancel out of their abilities and re-engage on their own terms. It never should have been a problem on his kit.
I honestly think the only reason any Genji player is “against” the Deflect buff is so that they can more confidently argue that he needs buffs elsewhere as a trade off. But buffing Deflect did a lot for Genji’s survivability and consistency, it didn’t intrude on power creep like his other changes did. Out of everything buffed in Genji’s kit, this one is by far the fairest.
No because what people can do with Genji’s kit is unique to Genji and couldn’t be replicated, necessarily, by other heroes. This is kind of an unfair argument that basically says, “every hero needs to be as good as the best hero,” and that’s how we got into this power creep cycle. It wasn’t enough that Genji could occasionally prove himself or be a threat when going against non-meta comps – no, he has to be meta-worthy, anything less is unacceptable apparently.
After these nerfs, Genji will find himself in a place where he’s still definitely viable in lots of situations, and with a smoother kit that provides more consistent results. The raw damage increase that came from the damage buff and rate of fire buff were putting his lethality into an unhealthy place when he was already at an acceptable level of danger, and when Overwatch is currently facing a steep power creep issue, it only make sense to drop that raw damage and keep the buffs that make him a fun hero to be playing both as and against.
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I agree with what is being said here but I would like to say that his spread range did not need to be buffed. I have played genji from the start and I love the new changes for him but the spread made it so anyone with somewhat good aim can play genji to an acceptable level. Before you had to perfectly put the shurikens off to the side of the head so you can get 2 shurikens hit the head but now you just have to look in their general direction and you can hit them. I thought that this made him a lot easier for anyone to just pick him up and be good with him no matter who you played.
As for the newest nerfs I am fine with the damage going back to normal but I do not like his firing rate going back. This is was a change very early on in overwatch so people saying that people can “just get used to it again” does not apply here. But it is a little sad to see genji being nerfed so fast after his buff.
genji has a 42% winrate today in gm.
he’s one of the worst dps heroes in the game right now.
Well said.
Daily stats are completely inaccurate, weekly stats aren’t much better either… If you look at his weekly stats in GM he’s currently at a 5.17% pickrate and a 53.42% winrate.
personally i think he can keep the fire rate and damage and deflect duration but revert the spread and manual deflect cancel because the last two are a bit tooooo forgiving for even bad genji players