I would tone down Hook range, fire rate, and maybe buff hook CD or take a abreather in some way that assists the team. Or maybe even a team passive.
Using reaction time to determine whether something is fair or not is pretty naive. Following that logic you have ~300ms to react to a Widow with a charged up shot from 50m away who’s waiting for you to peek. That doesn’t seem all that fair either now does it? Especially considering she could be in numerous locations far far away from you.
Two words:
Bait it
That’s it. It’s not about “reaction time”. If your having to try and react to a hook after its cast, you would have lost the fight regardless of if you could react in time or not. Hog preys on people who aren’t paying attention. It’s his whole deal. Keep an eye out for where he is. Communicate with your team. Call it when his hook is on cooldown. Strafe while engaging him and force him to use his hook while you’re actively strafing.
It’s one of the most basic and fundimental skills in any FPS
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The second LOS check wasn’t a Favor The Shooter issue, it was an oversight. Hook 1.0 could grab you through walls without lag because of how it was designed.
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Yeah its not as hard to smash RMB as tracer if you see the animation.
Hanzo already needs 2x space to even move.
Tracer is already save unless you blink foreward.
Zarya probably has the easiest time, as she can add the time until hog actually shoots. To save you
well obviously the dmg needs to be nerfed.
the 132 breather is a buff but it wont make him any tankier. like how soldier’s biotic field doesnt make him any more of dps or a healer.
hook is the best cc in the game not only does it has longer range than most cc but it dispositions an enemy and sets up for a kill. so what if you couldnt kill a hooked target (you would need a team to do that) but you can hook them through shields?
This. Most of the time in hog 1v1’s you don’t react to hook, you anticipate it. Just like reins earthshatter
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HumanBenchmark.com is a source of a massive quantity of reaction time data collected over the last two decades
Except the reaction involved is literally a direct stimulus → button push response. Which makes it very fast. Add to that the fact that there is also a very distinctive audio cue (audio reflexes are about 25% faster) and you are making the opposite of the argument you seem to have intended.
425 milliseconds is a lifetime when it comes to simple reflex response. Even elderly folks in the early stages of dementia rarely respond slower than 350ms visual reaction times.
If you couldn’t respond to a reflex stimulus in half a second, I am pretty sure you would lose your driver’s license in most states in the USA.
A motor response that involves a muscle contraction larger than a finger-click is typically slower, but this is basically a fast swipe across your mousepad. Doesn’t really have much relevance here.
This is not how reflexes work AT ALL.
Reflexes are fast because they bypass cognition. You cannot “notice something” and THEN react. You react before you are consciously aware of the reflex.
Maybe try to science a little harder next time my good man.
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According to the first site that came up on google, the average is 284 ms with the median being 273 ms
And according to one of my fav youtubers who covered a vid comparing ow & paladins (long video but an excellent one) the average reaction time to auditory stimulus is .17 seconds and .25 ms visually.
But in this case, Hog’s “euhauh” seems to come even after his hook launches so I don’t think audio is particularly useful.
Factoring in a latency averaging at 50-60 ms (with them having a similar latency) your best time to react would be to Hog rather than the actual Hook itself, otherwise, you’re dead.
Nice findings.
Bottom line is, it’s not as challenging to react to Hook as it is straight up unreasonable.
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Finally! A topic I know a bit about…
This is more than enough time, actually.
I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I did quite a bit of research on visual reaction time awhile back. Mainly because I have Nystagmus, and my visual reaction time dramatically improved after I started playing OW (specifically Tracer). So much so that my eye doctor was amazed, actually.
Ok, so from what I recall, the average human has about a 250ms reaction time. Gamers have significantly better - in fact some of best FPS players in the world can go as low as 90 to 100ms, IIRC. Those numbers aren’t realistic for most people, of course, but most gamers under the age of 30 have below 250.
With Nystagmus, pre OW, mine was 450. After some years of playing Tracer, mine dropped to around 215, which my doctor said he’d never seen before in someone with my condition. (So yay OW, breaking disability boundries. XD)
Anyway! Point of all that is: 0.55 seconds is 550ms. So most gamers who are paying attention are completely able to react to hook. Plus you have to consider the fact that we are anticipating it in a standard 1v1, which makes us even more likely to be able to dodge it.
Surprise hooks from flank Hogs get us, yeah, but anyone actively paying attention to Roadhog should have a fair shot, especially if they are on a fast character.
Positioning near cover to break LoS also helps when dealing with Roadhog. If you’re out in the open, your chances are far lower of surviving, given how hook’s favor-the-shooter works. So there is that.
That’s why I try to position in areas like this when dealing with him:
But yeah, just be mindful of your surroundings and don’t ignore the Hog. I’m not saying he’s not overtuned - he does seem a bit strong at the moment. But I’m just saying your argument that you don’t have enough time to react is flawed.
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The game’s full of obnoxious stuff like this, that’s what makes it so much fun.
Learn to predict it.
Reaction time is not fixed and definitely improves with regular practice. It is one of the parts of your brain that is most responsive to neuroplasticity! There have been studies that show even folks in their mid to late 60s are able to improve their reaction time through regular practice to the point where they could regularly hit below 200ms.
That said, anything below 150ms is generally not something you can achieve through practice. A considerable portion of motor latency comes from the velocity at which you are conducting the nerve impulse down to your hand, and is not easily altered through practice the same way that nerve connectivity is inside the brain. There is a physical limit to how fast sodium/potassium channels can open and close, unfortunately.
Interesting fact: physical size does make a difference at this threshold of peripheral motor reflex. People with shorter arms will have slightly faster reflexes, assuming everything else is equal.
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This is PLENTY for my Translocator
the reaction time is there, it’s just sometimes you can’t do something about it because it’s both a bit lenient and you can be a bit trapped due to map geometry.
so what actually beats it is to have information and understanding how to play around it.
and you need both and that doesn’t allways happen because there’s a lot of things happening to keep a track of, and being ready for a hook isn’t allways there.
also the leniency of it sometimes can surprise us which means we just lack information in how it works properly.
Or you could track hook usage the same way that ults are tracked.
You don’t react to it. You predict it. Just like how D.Va players anticipate Zarya ulti. Hogs hook is very predictable He will most like use as soon as it’s off cool down.
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Hmm, for this kind of extremely chaotic environment 0.3sec is the more accepted reaction time.
However the reaction also can typically begin much sooner, you’re not really looking for the animation as you can’t, it’s too easily lost in all the noise of the shadows, projectiles, explosions, screen blur and so on. What you’re mainly reacting to is the position, that this is JUST the sort of position that Hog would be in to hook and now would be the time he would use it.
Though I can confirm it takes 0.5sec from the ability being activated to the hook visibly connecting with the target when aiming at a training bot exactly 20m away.
The problem is Hog can cause people to use evasion cooldowns by his mere presence. Hog just being around stops me using sentry at all though if I’m not in sentry I can generally dodge the hook.
Can’t just keep staring at him whole time, and lags also aren’t your friend.
i would be down for a passive, i heard suggestions like a 20% damage reduction for allies around a specific area around hog, i wouldnt mind that if hog has to lose some damage, that said as a healer main i still love healing people but i get they dont want AOE healing to be too strong
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