This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue


ngl too much healing will always go paired with 1 shot kills let it be ults snipers etc
so pick one over the other one


Widow has had this amount of damage for years. So it’s obviously not the cause. If anything widow got weaker with the mobility nerfs and mercy nerfs.

Healers also got buffed to try to keep up with damage, and they are struggling to keep up with healing as it is without burst healing if some sort, hence why there’s always an Ana or Brigitte and never a Mercy or often even a Moira.

That’s a lie

Lucio and Ana were buffed because of how OP was Mercy. They did not need those buffs, yet they received them. Mercy nerfs would’ve likely sufficed but instead they got buffs. Damage was reduced if anything (junkrat)

Blizz subsequently added more burst with Hanzos reworked Storm Arrow. Blizz added Ashe, which added more burst with her headshots. Later on tried to nerf the tank meta of Goats by nuking Brigitte hard (mostly deserved, but some undeserved), buffing Mccrees FTH, and buffing Reapers sustain. The Mccree buff notably adding even more burst to the game.

Scatter arrow was a much higher burst than storm arrows are. Storm arrows is still matrixable and gives you more reaciton time. It was also nerfed meanwhile and meta still remained the same.

Ashe is not played whatsoever. McCree sees almost no usage. Neither of these 2 changes led to the meta, in fact, meta was already there. Those changes were attempts to change the meta but it did nothing. Same as Reaper

Lucio was overbuffed, Ana was overbuffed

But the true culprit of why sustained damage is absolute trash in this meta is Brigitte and her repair pack. It will negate most sustained damage. And Brigitte herself is almost immune to it due to shield cycling with Rein and matrix. Only real way how you can quickly kill Brig is a Widowmaker headshot. Hanzo headshot doesn’t kill her.

How misguided or agenday you need to be to actually blame damage when it’s blatantly obvious that extreme amounts of healing and burst healing make everything that isn’t burst damage absolute trash

Buffs to damage (Soldier, Torb, McCree) were an attempt to change the meta. The only damage that was viable was Doomfist and that’s because he kills through healing basically.


OK, nerf Discord, put it on a cooldown, or remove it competely… I can accept that, as long as Zen’s Hitbox get’s reduced, so he’s no longer a free kill for Tracer and Genji.

Honestly, this game needs to bring more outplaying going on. ATM it’s more or less rock, paper, scissors. You watch the kill cam, you see how you got killed, and you’re not impressed by how you got outplayed, instead you are like “wow, that was lame”…


He isn’t

That’s a myth that goes back to days when he had 150 HP


He is. With his hitbox, Tracer one-clips him with bodyshots, not a single shot to the head is needed.
Play Zen, watch some kill cams and see for yourself.

Meanwhile, if Zen wants to kill Tracer, he needs to aim for the head.


can you remember when you heard about it? like was it recently or…?


It still requires tracking + dodging + blinking on her part to do it. It’s nowhere as easy as it appears unless the Zen is standing still and is completely oblivious to everything.

And hitting headshots as Zen on Tracer is not difficult at all due to how insanely large his balls (projectiles) are.

In fact, that matchup is actually fairly well balanced. Tracer has the upper edge but he is by no means a free kill. In fact, if he plays far back so that she has to waste a lot of blinks to engage, she will often die or force to recall.

Just visit any Tracer player threads on reddit or elsewhere and find out how many of them are actually saying that Zen matchup is nowhere as easy as people make it out to be. The “Zen is a free kill” goes to 150 HP Zen days

Because if actually was a free kill right now then he wouldn’t have seen much more playtime during dive meta than Tracer actually did


Even if he is strafing and jumping, his hitbox is so big, Tracer has easy time tracking it. It requires Zero headshots on Tracer’s part to one-clip.
Stop defending the indefensible.


JK… Tracer has all the moblty in the world, while Zen has to predict perfectly where her head is going to be and land either 3 headshots, or 2 headshots + discord. If he fails to do so, Tracer recalls and you’re dead.

The only way for Zen to live is for him to get help from the second healer, or from the entire team to encircle him in a similar fashion to how Jjonak get’s help from his team.
Good luck to see that on the ladder, especially below Diamond.

Most likely bad Tracers.
The amount of outplay and prediction Zen has to pull off to kill Tracer is absolutely unreasonable. That’s what you would say if you were honest.
You are clearly not arguing in good faith. You are like the people, who used to say, that resto and dreamstate druids during TBC were weak and they needed a buff.


I’m not hearin’ that noise!


The easiest workaround without resorting to nerfs/buffs is to allow each team to deny one hero for the other at the beginning of each match. It’s been experimented with and has resulted teams being forced into different comps outside of GOATS.


You mean the easiest workaround without actual balancing.

Nah, but seriously, if goats proves to be so good, clearly DPS needs some buffs… like less damage falloff, less spread, so that damage is more consistent on certain characters. Things like that. (but nothing along the lines of 50% life steal for Reaper, that was stupid).

And less “rock, paper, scissors” design. We need less “design a character, that counters another character”, and more “how do we bring outplaying back into the game”, so that not everything is about “I picked A, therefore B needs to switch to C”, and eventually “just go goats”.

The game doesn’t even feel like a shooter anymore.


You can kill them Bastion probably with mercy and dedicated peelers. But the problem is tanks have too much cc and deny ult to damage… and heals have ultimates the deny getting killed. If you didn’t have tanks you can 1 shot/burst down healers. Do you understand? They kept nerfing the damage dealers to a point where stacking tanks was way better.


You want to know why people don’t see healing as a problem. Because for 99 percent of players healing isn’t a problem. It’s a one percent problem. It’s like asking why the poor and rich have vastly different opinions on the issue. DPS make up 40 percent player base. Triple support isn’t common used in the vast majority of comp games.


OWL is a part of the top 1%.


Also you have to take into account player base. Support mains are genereal not going to advocate against the class they play same for dps and tank mains.


Yup, they’re strong.

It’s hard enough to get people playing support without making them garbage like Mercy is now.


Brig isn’t a DPS she a brawl tank support hybrid. You’re telling me the hero with lowest damage potential is also a DPS hybrid that’s a hideously statement at that point ever single hero in the game except mercy is a dps.


I can’t accept something that is false.


She has high effective dps in Goats because she can attack through shields. Rein is also able to do this to harass the others. Wheras dps have to either break the shield or put themselves in danger behind tanks. Goats is about having the lowest risk for highest reward. And punishing enemy mistakes because you are allowed to make many many more.


High effective dps in goats. How does that prove she a dps? Brig doesn’t even average 7000 damage a game. Yet people are trying to pass her of as dps. Also really begin able to deal damage to shield users makes her dps. How does that even correlate? Her damage is still pathetic lower.