This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue


#121

zeniatta discord should be 25% more damage and not 50

And healing orb should heal a little more but as soon as targeted ally goes OOS globe needs to disappear istantly


#122

Why can you not git gud and go Winston or something, honestly he’s not that hard to kill.


#123

I would like to get back to plat again because I feel like it has a little more prestige than gold, for however much that counts. I had naive fancies of making it to Diamond when I was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. But the amount of time it took for me to practice every day to get from Silver to Plat the one time I was serious about climbing is ridiculous. The fact that I am getting older and more concerned about my life outside of the game, and the fact that climbing the ladder is frustrating as all get out as a support main, I don’t give that much of a damn anymore. Even when I was climbing I knew in my heart of hearts I would never be anywhere close to where the OWL boys and girl are sitting. That’s just reality.

So once again, I ask: why am I in any way obligated to care about pro play when it will never have an effect on me???


#124

Except the ones that are, like Zarya. Even on the ladder Zarya is top 3 DPS, barely beaten by Torb in second.


#125

Killing zen is easy? What does that have to do with discord orb being op. Yeah, he’s round and immobile, fairly easy to kill.

Still doesn’t change the fact that he gives a team wide mercy boost that has no cooldown on his E


#126

If you can’t git gud and counter zen then do the following:
Go sombra
Place translocater down
Find zen
Shoot him up.


#127

Still don’t get it huh…

That’s OK. Don’t hurt your brain too much


#128

The forums need to accept that game balance is complicated and people who play casually often don’t have the best understanding of how the game works.


#129

lots of people are trying to pin down one aspect of GOATS as the central problem. In a way this is understandable. If you find the lynchpin, you can nerf it and weaken the comp.

The problem is that there is no one aspect of GOATS that’s making it such a powerful pick. Its strength lies in its redundancy, consistency, and its synergy.

The base healing of GOATS isn’t that high. Lucio and Brig stack to about 33 hps (and neither base heal is on all the time). Zen adds another 30 hps on one target. That’s not a ton of base healing. As other people have pointed out, the more base healing a GOATS comp has, the poorer it is (Zen GOATS > Ana GOATS > Moira GOATS).

Damage dealers could burn through the base healing easily in a different comp. But damage can only be applied infrequently in GOATS comps because it has to make its way through a Rein shield, a Brig shield, two Zarya bubbles, and a Dva defense matrix. Added to that, most of the heroes have high health pools, and all have either armor, shields, or self healing.

One you get through all of that, then it’s the support’s turn to serve as a line of defense. There’s the base healing, and then the healing cool downs, and then the three support ults.

The short engage time (due to Lucio’s speedboost) hurts long range opponents. The two CC’s (Lucio and Brig) and 2 CC ultimates (Rein and Zarya) hurt short range opponents. And once the comp gets to its opponent, it has multiple sources of very consistent high damage.

I dislike the comp and would like to see its prevalence reduced, but I don’t know how one would approach it. Nearly every single aspect that makes it strong (aside from speed boost) is covered by numerous characters. It relies so heavily on hero synergy, and on the base consistency of its characters. You would have to fundamentally change several of them, and I don’t see that happening.


#130

Honestly I think one reason why healers in OW seem to refuse healing being problem is because probably many healers came from games like WoW where healer’s job is to keep everyone alive and someone dying (other than to avoidable damage like standing on fire) means you failed. So they keep this same mentality where no-one is supposed to die and you keep everyone up. Obviously that’s not how things can go in a pvp shooter. That’s also probably a reason why you can still see many healers thinking that they are actually still underpowered.

Lucio and Brigitte can actually heal a lot when everybody stays together and stays alive. They heal much less in traditional comps as people are spread apart and kills happen quickly. That’s why burst healing with Ana and Moira is so good.
For example Ana only has 93.75 hps without nade and actually slightly less if you account for reloads. Lucio with no amp up is 92.3 hps and Brigitte with Inspire only is 100.02 hps. So in GOATS setup Lucio and Brigitte can heal just as much as Ana or Moira can.

Also Lucio and Brigitte are the core supports of GOATS. Zen doesn’t have big output but he only gets used against other GOATS as you won’t need as much healing and discord is just so good. Against non-GOATS teams you’ll switch to Moira or Ana as the other teams have more burst damage so you’ll need more burst healing.


#131

I already gave a simple 1 change that will kill goats.
But people don’t want to accept it even though the benefits outweigh the negatives.


#132

I agree. tanks aren’t killing much in the pro scene without ults or numbers advantage first. In solo queue zarya damage gets kills a bunch because no one notices him flanking the sides, but at higher ranks it’s pretty difficult to get kills

healing is super strong, and the only anti-heal gets beaten by rein + dva + zarya bubbles at worst

OW has basically hit the same problem that paladins dealt with about a year ago


#133

healers are viewed as underpowered because no amount of healing can carry players much much worse than the opponents. However, when a healer is playing as part of a stack, even a small amount of healing is OP. That’s why healer is the easiest role to get boosted on. balancing healers to be able to carry in solo queue often means making their skills OP in the pro scene.

Ana lucio and zen are all gods. I honestly think zarya is also a god. when they nerfed dva instead of zarya to try to nerf goats I was actually rather surprised… But I can understand. nerf the matrix and then more nades and gravs get through. However, they basically nerfed dva’s role in goats while making zarya/ana more effective.

I don’t know what they should do. My best thought was just cap the number of people hit by aoe healing. However, I also think having so many defensive ults is becoming a problem in the game too.

there need to be more slows against lucio speed boost too

edit: leave lucio immune to slows though…it’s no fun if i can’t go fast…just slow the rest of my team and I will go in and reddit lucio

edit 2: suggestion. change ashe’s broken grenade…instead of a billion damage just make it slow the target. actually it has too much aoe to apply a slow right now probably. whole team would get hit and be sitting ducks…but it’s an idea


#134

As I understand it, your argument is that when a team stays close together, the damage they receive is distributed among all its members, so the aoe healing is equivalent to single target healing.

That 92 hps Lucio is only healing individual members for about 16 hps, and what matters to any individual hero is whether or not the healing they receive can keep up with the damage. If that here takes 92 dps, they will quickly die. If the 92 incoming dps spreads around the whole team, then Lucio’s healing will cancel it out.

I don’t think your model is very relevant to how damage actually does occur though (at least not in higher ranks, where GOATS is actually played). People can aim, they can focus fire, and damage tends to happen in large individual chunks or in aoe. This Ana-Lucio equivalence does not really hold for damage of that form.

On a side note, if we measure total team hps in this way then Moira’s hps is 400 hps without an orb.


#135

Ive never seen anyone deny that Brig and Lucio’s aura’s shouldn’t stack?

Well, unless you count Blizzard’s silence on the matter as denial.


#136

Brig is issue cause of her E ability + her ult that gives a huge damage reduction even post armor nerf. And if the matter here is healing then Zen and Lúcio are indeed balanced in that aspect cause they can barely sustain someone in a 1v1 situation with healing only.


#137

Mercy can be added to the “barely sustain anyone in 1v1 situation with healing only” and sadly, she cannot contribute with much damage either cause she UNLIKE EVERY OTHER HEALER cannot do damage while she heals.


#138

Nope. Mercy is in the right spot considering healing(Giver her decent quality of life changes that Mercy mains are asking and she is gold). In a game like this, healing should never have such high values like the ones of Ana for example it doesn’t matter she have to aim it’s just too much that make stuff unkillable and some fights last forever(Love playing as her tho but in a balance aspect that needs changing asap.)


#139

I’m not sure if you just skipped part of my post or what but like I said. In GOATS it’s much harder to single out targets as the team stays together. By the nature how GOATS stays together it obviously causes multiple people getting damaged. For that example Mercy wouldn’t do well in GOATS as it’d take too long for her to heal people. Ana too can only heal multiple people on cooldown. Moira does get used in GOATS but only against non-GOATS when burst damage is more common.

Yes but it’s not sustainable healing. And like I said Moira is used in GOATS when fighting against other team comps that have more burst potential.


#140

The real problem is damage in general. DPS and burst damage in particular got so damn high that they all just explode instantly. Tanks are the meta because they’re the only ones who won’t die instantly to things like Widow headshots.

Healers also got buffed to try to keep up with damage, and they are struggling to keep up with healing as it is without burst healing if some sort, hence why there’s always an Ana or Brigitte and never a Mercy or often even a Moira.

Blizz subsequently added more burst with Hanzos reworked Storm Arrow. Blizz added Ashe, which added more burst with her headshots. Later on tried to nerf the tank meta of Goats by nuking Brigitte hard (mostly deserved, but some undeserved), buffing Mccrees FTH, and buffing Reapers sustain. The Mccree buff notably adding even more burst to the game.

Really the only solution is to nerf the damage of damn near EVERYTHING back to controllable levels, nerfing healing to compensate for the damage loss, and MAYBE one or two tanks could get a survivability nerf, as I could see Wrecking Ball in particular being nasty if he kept his mobility, high hp pool and giant shield after an overall damage nerf. Otherwise keep healthpools the same, just nerf damage and healing both a bit, so that Attack classes don’t instantly explode against everything, and healers can actually have a chance to save them.