This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue


#81

I am curious, if healing is the issue, why isn’t Ana more common in this comp? There is something to the synergy of this particular composition, the cross-support and protection that allows for mitigation of mistakes and rapid adjustment to potential burst kills. I don’t think that there is just one angle to attack this from to topple the whole structure, unless it is a high level game mechanic change such as diminishing returns on area healing (which I think is the best idea I’ve heard so far).


#82

I mean, Ana in standard ladder is at a 75% pick rate. She’s no exception outside of OWL.

Lucio is currently around 80%.

These are stats for GM btw.


#83

Answer me this.
All the suggestions to kill goats by nerfing these heros or buffing these other Heroes, tweaking the game in this way and that way etc etc etc.
Will they kill goats? Or it’s a “we will see” , we have to test situation?
Just like all the changes that have been made to the game and heroes recently in order to tone down goats. Goats is still a thing it hasn’t gone away.

With my suggestion to limit support and tanks to a maximum of two per team, it kills goats.
1 change. There is no “we will see and have to test it out” nonsense. It’s a 100% fix that does away with goats.


#84

Because Blizzard doesn’t want goats to be completely removed from the game - no option to run it, even if you wanted to.

They don’t want to limit players to a forced playstyle because that gets very lackluster and limits player expression and choice. The less choice for a human to have does not receive good feedback, as history will prove.


#85

I can say with extreme confidence if we deleted Brigitte there would be no goats


#86

That’s what people said when blizzard limited using the same hero multiple times on the same team. Three McCrees three Mercy’s for example.
In the end it was best for the game.
Just like now, a 2-2-2 or a 1-1-1 and 3 flex or just limiting no more than 2 tanks and support stacking, will be better for the game.
The positives outweigh the negatives.

It will also allow certain Heroes to be balanced properly.
Right now Heroes like Brig and DVA can’t be balanced properly because of the multi stacking of the same role abuse.


#87

I have yet to see any evidence for healing being the issue.

If it was why isn’t Ana played in every composition as she can negate healing?


#88

am getting sick of you you know that right? they created moira and brig because of how easy it was to dive and kill the support cast

like you said

any other composition of support gets doved on and killed faster than the peelers can hope to rescue them in. you want to balance brig you need to do it in a way where the backline doesnt get turned mobile characters punching bags. because I dont think the community can deal with another year of dive regardless of how much they may hate goats.


#89

She’s played in 75% of GM games, so she’s basically there.


#90

There are versions of goats that people have run without Brigg. It isn’t unheard of.
Again the issue is being able to run 3 supports and 3 tanks.
You Nerf one hero to the ground and another will take its place.
Nerf one support to the ground another support take its place. Nerf a tank to the ground another tank takes its place.


#91

You have to nerf the synergies between the 3 supports to force more diversity while not removing expression.


#92

Again if you do that you just weaken the heroes outside of 3 support 3 compositions.
You can say what you want to say about it but they will never be picked outside of a goats composition because they would be weak.


#93

So nerf dive too. Buff hog to counter it monkey and dva. There is a thread about balance on the front page where I say exactly that

Dive was too strong. But dive is the highest skill way to play the game and goats is the opposite.

They nerfed Ana because she could 1 v 1 tracer if the Ana is a better player. And then created Brigitte so mercy’s could 1 v 1 tracer without being a better player.


#94

Nerfing synergy between them doesn’t make them useless on their own. It just means their weaker paired together. Alone, they’re still just as strong as they were. And t doesn’t exclude them from being able to be paired together like forced comps would.


#95

You are basically suggesting to destroying Heroes because of a composition that exists and is being abused. Instead of trying to get rid of or limit the composition itself.


#96

Are you just ignoring me…? You don’t need to destroy heroes to make SYNERGIES between heroes weaker. The hero plays just as strong on their own, but the synergy between them and the other hero would be weaker, but doesn’t remove the option to run them. How is this so hard to understand?

You’re not affecting the core of how a hero works, meaning they aren’t even nerfed in any way playing on their own or with ANY other hero not affected by the synergy change.


#97

If teams ever want to run Brig and Lucio right now in the game in a non goats comp, they are somewhat viable because their healing complements each other. A team can make this work.
With your suggestion it totally kills this option.
This is what I’m saying when we should not over Nerf a hero just because of a composition that people are abusing. Because of the 3 stacking of the same role thing.


#98

Nope. I never said anything even remotely close to that.


#99

As I said, an AoE heal limit isn’t the only solution, nor does it ever need to enter the game. It was ONE of millions of ideas. Forced 2-2-2 is not the answer either.


#100

It’s both… If it were just healin… Triple dps would be just as viable.

Stacking both is the issue. But this wouldn’t happen with a hero requirement