This forum refuses to accept healing as the games issue

If this was introduced and it affected healing you might as well use 6 dps

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This is the real issue here.

Nerfing healing or tank damage across the board is not the answer.

You nerf healing and everyone is going to feel it - not just goats.

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Yeah, they should make brig useless.

Eh, just make all support useless just to be sure. I mean, theyā€™re so unfun to play that nobody wants to play them, right? We have a problem with support being an unpopular thing to have to play, so letā€™s make them less effective so itā€™s more undesirable and unfun to play them!!!

incorrect.

As stated tank damage is not really relevant, GOATS kills are largely from the tank ults - since the other team is GOATS too (lol).

Healing is by far the bigger culprit, but the REAL problem is that ults are just too efficient at clearing points, to the extent that in GOATS vs GOATS, all combat is just ult farming since regular combat does not kill anyone. Occasionally someone might body a support who is overextended but mainly its just farming grav/shatter/bomb. Itā€™s not tank damage that makes GOATS possible, its tank ults plus triple healing plus the low lethality of most dps heroes.

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A tank has to pose some kind of threat tho or theyā€™ll simply be ignored and sidelined by DPS. The best answer is to make hero 30 an anti-Goats I think.

I will say this: if healing was the problem then DPS would be more meta, not less. Burst damage, especially the snipers, can secure kills even through very heavy healing (Widow can drop people affected by Trance, for instance).

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Unpopular opinion but even If Brig would be nerfed to the ground at the point sheā€™s useless we would see something like quad tank instead.

Honestly, Iā€™d like see a nerf to Zen and Lucioā€™s utility over anything else.

Discord and Speed Boost have been the driving force behind literally every comp since day 1. Zenyatta has been meta ever since he got 200 HP and Lucio was pretty much only sidelined during post-Mercy rework Dive and in Double Sniper.

But overall, I still feel like the quality of Overwatchā€™s games will continue to suffer so long as we donā€™t have tools to bust up stagnant metas.

Hoping for no more aoe-healing based characters to ever be added from now until the end of the games life is also a fantasy, soā€¦keep dreaming I guess.

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No, just because the range is short doesnā€™t mean they should mid-high damage.

Because another aspect to GOATS is using your barriers and stuff to get close enough, and start doing damage.

With Rein that is too easy because his barrier isnā€™t tied to a cd like Orisa or Winston. Especially when his damage is far higher than theirs, at least his hammer damage.

Lowering it to 65 per swing still puts him slightly above Winston, because he has 60 DPS. Meanwhile rein swings slightly faster than 1 swing per second.

Meanwhile the Charge Damage nerf makes his counters more effective against him, and thus punishing him if he gets too aggressive, like charging a Bastion. Plus it cuts back on how easy Rein can kill other tanks.

Yes, but heres the thing-

GOATS is meta because of every little small problem that adds up into one.

You have

  • tanks that dish too much damage (Rein Zarya)
  • zen discord is way too powerful since itā€™s like up to 6 damage boosted players. (Imo it should be nerfed to 15%, but zen gets an additional 15% to keep his self-defense balanced.
  • Lucio speed boost.
  • heal aura stacking (Brig+Lucio actually heals more than zen harmony orb)
  • the nerfed tank busters (Junkrat, Pharah, Bastion, Reaper, Hog even)

So allll of these issues stack up, and thus itā€™s not a simple problem like Dive was. Dive was the byproduct of hyper mobile heros in unison with a box that Dva would hold over her team, or enemies.

Discord is only 30%. I think a small nerf to 25% would be alright if they buff his personal damage to compensate.

Nerf discord down to 15%, and then give Zen an additional 15% so he maintains his personal 30%.

Discord is too much since it stacks every teammates Damage. It needs the team-aspect nerfed.

Brigitte is still capable of stuff I wonā€™t deny that, but Lucio and Zenyatta are much better choices if one can use them well. Why nerf the 2nd weakest support again(moira is worst) when the other two are doing much much more?

Gimme dat .75s Tracer reload, bb.

None of them need nerfs,. though and I agree re:moira she needs a rework to give her some utility, imo. Utility heroes will always be infinitely more useful than raw damage or healers.

Zen was meta in pro play always even when hero stacking was still alowed. When he got faster ult and more hp he became usable on ladder as well.

None of them need nerfs agreed, was just arguing that Brigitte needs another one via proxy value (other two are of higher value) was willfully ignoring that Brigitte is sitting in an arguably worse state than Lucio/Zenyatta.

If anything it proves that giving Ana/Mercy/Moira more value from more than just healing would benefit the support category as a whole.

Honestly the current design decision of having off tanks and off healers really makes it very difficult to choose optimal team setupā€™s without very specific reasons. For instance Zarya/Dva will almost certainly never be viable tank comp as they just donā€™t have the necessary tanking capabilities thus forcing someone to choose Winston/Orisa/Reinhradt. But on the flip side, Winston/Orisa/Reinhardt donā€™t compliment each other well.

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