I was about to like but then saw that you said that Mercy didn’t need her healing to be 60hps but then was about to like again as I saw that you said that other supports should be brought down to be in line with Mercy only to take back that like for suggesting nerfs to Brigitte instead of rebalancing, nerfs to D.va and over-nerf to Lucio. Outside those little disagreements this is a 4.5/5 post
Lolno. Not at all actually. I’m not even sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Healers bring utility to the team comp, as well as having the added benefit of self sustain in some form or another and most importantly they keep the front line healed up, so supports in the back line don’t have to worry too much when they’re in the backline protected by the front line… Usually.
Dps just do damage. Like, that’s it. That’s what they do.
This entire rant is basically saying it takes a combinations of tanks and healers to do the kind of damage a dps can do, therefor nerf the tanks and healers, because dps don’t bring anything else to the table but damage.
and this is just an absurd statement. Overwatch is first and foremost a team based fps. Every hero is capable of popping off because every hero is capable of killing every other hero some way or another.
The dps class get an edge in that department, but that’s all they bring to a team composition. Which is great for a lot of team comps. However against a tank line up with considerable amounts of healing, hp and armor that’s where their burst potential falls off. That’s inherently a problem with the dps class.
The funny part is, the counters exist for goats, they’re just extremely weak this patch due to problems of their own.
- Pharmercy is trash with the hit scan buffs and mercy healing nerf.
- Junkrat is only good for spamming chokes since his last nerf.
- Doomfist can’t get into the back line and pick off the healers solo anymore.
- Sombra is only as good as her team allows her to be which seems to only be found in pro play.
This is just restating what I said, but in a more roundabout manner.
Snipers don’t care about self sustain. You die in one hit if they click on your head, whether you are Moira or McCree.
If you think an entire GOATs comp only does the damage of one DPS I’m gonna have to ask what game you’ve been playing the past few months, because it sure wasn’t this one. Comps don’t need DPS to kill quickly, so they might as well not exist rn. That is what I said. No more and no less. And expecting a comp without DPS to have issues killing things is hardly a hot take, as one would not dream of making a comp with zero tanks or zero healers.
It is true that DPS is more flexible in how they deal damage. However damage flexibility doesn’t really matter when the tankball can engage quickly and force a fight that they autowin on their terms.
You do not even need a hitscan to deal with ranged AoE. Otherwise Pharmercy would be a viable GOATs counter as it would force a tank or Brig to swap to Widow to take her out, in which case you are no longer running 3-3. GOATs trivially wins the ground fight while Pharah does ineffective splash damage until she gets her ult after her team is dead. Same with Junkrat. Sombra only needs to be good in pro play since that’s the only place where GOATs is really popular but even so is not good enough. DF was a pubstomper that was only marginal in organized play, now he isn’t even that.
You are right. The issue is not that they choke themselves out of viability, which is a ridiculous statement, it’s that they don’t bring enough. Which you tacitly agree with.
The question remains whether you want the classes to be equalized by massive sweeping DPS buffs, or nerfs to the roles that dominate the meta. I prefer the latter, as the former would result in actual damage creep. I remind you that this is not the first meta with 0 DPS in it.
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Quad DPS is a joke. It works on very specific points of very specific maps (route 66 defense point A) that have extremely long sight lines to deal large amounts of damage from different angles against goats. However, all the other team has to do is switch to dive and then you quickly remember than you’re practically running a quickplay comp (and that’s if they didn’t just win playing goats). Quad DPS is merely a surprise strat that catches teams off guard, nothing more. Just like Mei or Bastion comps.
Yes but snipers don’t tend to be covered by their tank line at all times. Nor do they provide any other utility to the team comp aside from trying to get those picks. That’s a lot harder to do on 3 tanks and healers that are constantly guarded by them. Kind of why we ended up with goats to begin with.
Yeah except I said a combination, and not every part of goats. Discord + full charge Zarya, of course you’re going to melt a Rein. Both McCree and Hanzo are capable of that on their own. Plus they’ve got ults capable of team wipes on top of that.
What your saying, and what you original question was
Is basically you answering yourself, but then going on to say that’s a problem with the tanks and healers, and not the dps who have nothing else going for them.
I’m glad we can come to some kind of an agreement, though your solution and mine are pretty different.
The reason we’re in such a tank heavy meta was specifically to counter the terrible one shot meta that everyone hated, which basically came down to who had the better widow.
You somehow think we should nerf the healers and tanks damage to bring dps back into the team comps, which understandably has some merit to it. However that still doesn’t fix the previous problem. If you really want to talk about damage creep though, they literally just buffed mccree’s right click so now even he can shred tanks.
Damage creep has already happened.
I’m really upset they buffed this thing. Although I agree it was a good measure to try to counter goats, it could pretty much bring back the McRightClick. Maybe they buffed it too much. I’ve seen many McCrees killing 200hp heroes without stunning them and even at medium range just using FtH. It’s quite annoying.
No - double sniper was removed after the hanzo, widow and mercy nerfs. Brigitte would have always been meta if it hadn’t have been for those 3 heroes being extremely OP at the time as well. Brigitte is what caused goats for the most part and is the reason why she still needs further nerfs. D.Va, Zen and Lucio are certainly extremely strong - as to whether they need nerfs is whether Brigitte’s nerfs will be enough to prevent goats - however, apparently the new meta involves ana, lucio and zen, which would certainly point to the fact that healers other than brigitte are in need of nerfs.
You’re thinking of grav+dragon. Not one shot. Which still consisted of Widow, and either hanzo or doom, depending map.
Brigitte was out for awhile before goats became a thing.
This alone should tell you the problem wasn’t with Brigitte. People are still trying to sustain as best they can through getting melted.
Why would a professional admit if they were actually destroyed in the ladder like that?
I mean, it is a team failure but him playing his best likely wouldn’t have changed anything and that hurts a lot of pro players egos.
Do you think pros win every single game on the ladder? Some of them drop to Masters ffs. It wouldn’t change much which was the point of my post. You could be the best player in the world in a trio and if the other 3 players on your team have no clue how to deal with Bastion you are still going to lose.
Haha.
Hahaha
HAAHAHAHA
OH, whew. Thats a good one right there.
It’s one thing losing to common strategies.
It’s another to lose to curve ball strats with characters that are just so far out of the meta at their level that it’s a little bit sad.
A pro player saying they are botting even though on their worst days they are still better than most people at their rank, it’s more of an excuse when there isn’t really much of an excuse.
Game forums have always been kind of bad at balancing. Now I’m not saying every idea is awful, but a few certainly are. Mainly because people look at the game through rose tinted glasses to for balancing idea. They only suggest balance changes that would make their main stronger either through direct buffs or indirectly by nerfing their counters. That, or they look only at pro play to decide whether or not a hero should be buffed or nerfed. Oh, X hero is useful in pro-play despite being next to worthless for 99.9% of other players.
Even when people do correctly suggest buffs or nerfs, they fail to realize no matter how good of an idea it may seem, it’s only theoretical until you actually apply it.
I’m a main support, I reached GM twice and I’m currently a low Master. I don’t have the energy to play every 6 days with the inactivity decay system so I started doing my placement matches only (at the end of every season) since March.
I’m not ashamed of doing this 'cause I’ve been playing for almost 2 years straight in comp, I think I’ve seen it all.
My profile is private because ignorant people like you judge others based on what hero they play so I’m not giving you this pleasure. And it clearly shows I’m right considering how much you diminish people with a lower rank.
You represent everything that’s wrong with some members of the OW community. Congrats 
!
Not every game revolves around Goats, just like it didn’t with any other meta in previous seasons. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s a problem with this. Lunar colony had a four-tank meta in attack as well one year ago and it was fine.
The game is complex and players always find what meta is the best when a new patch is released. It’s always been this way and it’s impossible to fix this with that many heroes in the game unless they’re all alike (which is not the game’s purpose).
You can win against any meta if your team works well together but that’s often very hard because of people’s usual misconduct on voice chat. What I don’t like about this community is that they always ask for nerfs instead of learning. Very sad 'cause it’s killing the game in the long run.
And no, I’m against Genji or any hero being nerfed but we gotta admit that along Tracer, they’re the heroes that are nerfproof since the game’s release. I don’t like double standards such as nerfing Doomfist and Brig to the ground while others get to have a wonderful kit and not be nerfed.
That’s also what creates tension and hatred on this very forum. Some people feel hurt 'cause their hero or heroes are continuously nerfed while others thrive and get very few nerfs.
But I guess you’re from the “Skilled VS Unskilled heroes” playerbase cult so I wouldn’t be surprised if you told some heroes need nerfs 'cause they don’t require any “skill”. To me, every hero requires skill and you can do amazing things with any of them if you play them well. But I guess that’s an unpopular opinion.
In the end, it’s a big “no” to nerfing the healers again, if anything, buff other heroes to force people to play Goats less if it’s really that annoying to you.
You really are arguing with bias, dude. Yes, blades get stopped sometimes. But much less than other DPS ults which is easily borne out by the ult kills / min statistic as well as common sense. There’s a reason the person on the other side of this argument is called “Genji”.
She wasn’t, though…
Moth meta happened because the devs released a broken, OPAF Mercy rework to live servers despite overwhelmingly negative feedback the entire time it was on PTR. Before that, she was balanced on ladder but weaker in high ranks.
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