If this is just a matter of Blizzard’s available resources to combat the issue, I think we should agree to disagree right now since none of us known such information and would just be stating baseless opinions.
Personally, I don’t think it would be that hard to create a list of possible taboo sentences and synonyms for such sentences. They could also just implement moderators that can monitor certain conversations when a “trigger” word is said. All in all, the possibilities are endless so I don’t think their resources is that big of an issue.
That’s not the best course of action. Certain individuals don’t have the ability to decide what offends/accepts/hurts them.
You literally were discussing it a few replies earlier. But sure! Anything to make my life easier.
This, at its core, isn’t an issue with sexism. Sexism is simply the chosen avenue of attack.
It’s hostility + degradation.
If you are on somebody’s radar, for whatever reason, and they’re determined to attack you, then it doesn’t matter what you are, they’ll use whatever they know and attack you in a way to cause, what they think, is the most damage.
If they know your sex, they will use that.
If they know your race, they will use that.
If you have a lisp, or stutter, they will use that.
If you have an accent, they will use that.
Etc, Etc, Etc.
And if they know nothing about you, this being an online game, they will default to attacking your playstyle and gameplay.
Don’t make posts complaining about the mask, complain about the actual problem, if you feel the need to create a thread.
Imagine being me right?
I was under the impression that toxic masculinity was the expression of sexist ideas or dominant traits.
Only after I read the second part I quoted you in did I actually learn the REAL definition. Yeah toxic masculinity is a problem. There shouldn’t be an active discouragement to feel the entire range of our emotions through shaming.
I don’t think being able to assert dominance however is a bad thing like the definition implies as that transfers directly into leadership which people will ALWAYS need. But we shouldn’t be forced into being dominant and angry only as our range of expression allowed, even though it’s much more common for men to be naturally more dominant, being locked into being that way isn’t exactly healthy. I’m a big man, but I die at cute stuff and am really emotionally charged (thanks bipolar hate you too) but I’m forced to lock all of that away as soon as someone else is around. It’s not good for me.
I knew only the definition of toxic femininity. (And I’ve experienced this in every relationship I’ve ever been in and so commonly see it used in the workplace as a form of shirking responsibility onto “The strong male” so it from my perspective was just as common as the other, given my misguided stance on toxic masculinity through simply not knowing the real definition, you can see why I said what I said, also TYVM for clueing me up on what it actually means, wish I knew sooner because now I’m remembering all the times I’ve made a fool of myself and only just now realizing I did!)
I was abused from a young age. I had a cruel and extremely jealous step mother. I know first hand not all women had it easy.
Here is the difference, my parents were more into psychological punishment with me, but they beat my brother with switches and belts. They never hit me with anything till i was older and my step mother would slap me. Meanwhile my brother was getting punch on the head “because he could take it”.
Now my brother is socially inept, never goes outside, and gets all his action from adult websites.
One thing about this that does frustrate me is that I see so many advertisements, posters and the like about girls being able to do X-thing, as if the idea that women are just as capable as men is some new concept, and not something that has been around for ages…
But you never see anything about boys. It does make me feel bad for boys growing up in this day and age, seeing all the “masculinity is toxic” propaganda everywhere. Such as that Gilette ad…If I were a young boy and saw that, I’d feel awful.
I swear, the “social justice” movement of the last 5 years is more about “an eye for an eye” than it ever was about equality. I could also make that “social engineering” case from earlier, but for the sake of discussion I will not. In the eyes of the average hardcore Feminist, that is not their intention anyway.
More of this.
These days some women get angry if a man holds the door open for her. I may be very determined when it comes to not being a sensitive little daisy, but I really don’t mind some chivalry…at all. It’s actually really heartwarming to me haha.
Same. The phrase these days has become associated with both definitions, unfortunately.
There are aspects of society’s ideals of masculinity–caring for the family, loyalty, and protection–that aren’t bad at all. I’d say they’re important. Leadership too, but I’d still not really want to gender that.
Mostly what it refers to are those issues of not expressing emotion, fostering the objectification of women, and enforcing sexual prowess.
I honestly think the incel phenomenon is another outcropping of its effects.
I feel like I’ve disagreed with you on a lot of stuff in the past, but I’d just like to say that this is really well said. Because I’ve run out of likes…
I don’t think complaining that women get treated like sh-t in video games is part of the social justice movement. Though I agree with you and actively dislike SJWs purely for that ‘entire f***ing head for an eye’ toxicity they always seem to carry carry.
But this , this is different. Whether it’s men treating other men like sh-t or men treating women in particular like sh-t, to the point where we can’t open our mouth without getting harrassed, something has got to change.
Unfortunately too often the phrase I keep hearing is “Masculinity is toxic” which is where I got my misguided understanding of toxic masculinity. I was like, “I’m not toxic for being manly, that’s kinda sexist” and from then on, I was pissed at anyone who used the term toxic masculinity.
I get not wanting to skew leadership roles to men, so I think we should have affs to path women to those leadership roles since we know it will be male dominated on the path of our genetic drives to level the playing field abit. Not to say women aren’t capable of it ofcourse, just that most women won’t strive for that at a rate comparable to men.
I think the incel phenomenon is economically grounded. Women aged between 18-35 tend to select a partner based on economic grounds, and since women are pacing with men equally in terms of employment, and the men aged 18-24 are heavily unemployed or economically inactive making them less attractive because they don’t add anything to a womans life that they don’t have already.
Making rant posts for the purpose of “starting conversation” and doing nothing else to combat what they perceive as an issue could arguably be considered an aspect to the social justice movement, considering their internet slacktivism is one of the key foundations of the movement as a whole.
LOL yeah that sounds about right
Or women treating other women like scheisse, or women treating men like scheisse. Generally, toxicity really doesn’t discriminate. If someone is going to be rude, they’re going to be rude regardless of the recipient.
Who is “we”, though? You speak on behalf of women, and yet the majority of people who have been speaking against the “women are harassed” complaints on this thread in particular are women. I am not about to deny that women don’t get harassed, but I simply don’t see it as an epidemic at all. I’m a woman and play competitive regularly, as well as use the voice chat. I have done so for the better part of three years. I encounter another woman in about one out of every three games I play, and never have I witnessed any sexist encounters occur with them either. I have never been afraid to open my mouth. I have never played with anyone who is.
It’s this sort of generalising that does, I admit, really annoy me. I do believe that most people who find themselves often on the receiving end of toxicity do have a bit of an attitude problem; otherwise no one would bother so much with them. It’s easy to see, too - In pretty much every ranting thread about one toxic incident or another, the OP gets icy with anyone who questions them or doesn’t immediately offer their undying support.
The average man/woman isn’t a malicious person, even if they are protected by their online anonymity.
Anyways, is this topic not auto-updating for you guys too? I literally have to refresh the thread to see anything and it’s ticking me off enough that i might have to just give up chatting for the night lol. What is this, 2008?
I was going to ask THE SAME THING. It’s been doing this all day so like, 10 hours at least.
It’s definitely making the flow of threads alot harder to read as you have to check which post they actually replied to and when there is no replied to button you just have to make a best guess >.<
I can’t agree with you that women treat men like sh-t in voice chat (in general), we have a hard enough time as it is just by being girls. That said, I have met a couple of nasties… but for the most part? We just want to play a f***ing game without being harrassed for something that we didn’t choose at birth… do you feel? And you haven’t ever met people being rude to you because of being a girl? Wow, aren’t you lucky.
If it wasn’t you being a girl, it would be literally anything else. I had this conversation earlier in the thread. Lemme grab it, because I think we all agree that having these events of toxicity happen are bad, no one is here trying to say they aren’t and you’re being overly combative like we are denying that these things exist.
But I digress, lemme grab that post.
As a man, I know this. So what does it have to do with “toxic masculinity”?
Men are not the only people discouraging the showing of emotions.
And we can’t pretend it is only caused by men and use a buzzword that suggests that men are the single cause of the problem.
You know what I learned from being a male when I was a kid? That showing any sign of weakness has consequences. What I learned from not having someone to look up to is that there are no guidelines on how to be a man and that I should not care what other people think about me. I became my own role model.
Society (everyone) teaches us that any weakness is not acceptable. Even when finding a mate which is another huge part of the “I must be strong/worthy” mentality and in a lot of cases, it has nothing to do with other men but to do with the woman and how you want her to see you because history has shown there are generally certain traits that attract them (everyone is different and attracted to different things).
Some of these products make sense because there are actual biological differences between men and women. Believe it or not, there are things that have been shown to generally be more appealing to the different genders even down to scents.
You cannot ignore the differences. You can even see some in sports which I will not get into but has caused problems and controversies by people trying to ignore biological facts.
Women also go through dealing with what it means to be a “woman”. Some are different yet still harsh.
“Toxic masculinity” is pushing both the blame on and victimizing men at the same time and does not help the issue.
More and more , we are seeing men be painted as the enemies of society when yes, there are bad and toxic men yet there are also bad and toxic women. I don’t judge people based off their skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc… I judge them based off their actions and how they treat others.
Using “toxic masculinity” instead of acknowledging that the behavior itself is bad no matter the gender, is toxic.
I use Dove men. I like it. I wear pink shirts and button ups sometimes. They look good on me. I like the color scheme pink and blue, it looks fun and nice. I want to go down to this fancy soap store and buy some fancy soap because the last time I was in there, it all smelt so good (not all it…)
I cry in movies during happy scenes. Me and my best friend cried at the end of Coco. That was beautiful.
If I’m not “man enough” for liking certain things or showing emotion, too bad.
There are too many echochambers creating hive mindsets and painting broad targets that lead to too many innocent people getting caught in the crossfire.
Darth, I know you mean well and I know you aren’t out to be toxic to people.
However, toxicity is toxicity. No matter who it is directed at or who it comes from.
I was still in highschool and my little brother was watching cartoons. I decided to sit down and watch some with him to spend time with him. The channel started playing some ad for a day about “girls” and how they’re special and strong. My little brother asked me “are boys strong too?” I told him yes and I felt upset even having to say that.
Before he was born I remember there being some kid’s channels with special “girls” or “for girls” versions and I wondered why was there a need for it?
Nowadays, saying women are strong and special and don’t need men is praised but telling young boys they are strong and special is toxic?
Just like “toxic masculinity”, this focuses on one gender. At one point in time, yes, it was the right word but now it is being used to feminine superiority instead of equality.
I’m tired of the gender war crap. We have bigger issues, Berkut is an Aussie.
DANGIT MAN. I was taking a drink and I glanced over and saw this one line and well. If my keyboard dies, just know, IT’S YOUR FAULT! How dare you make me laugh
