Likewise. Asserting it is false, does not make it false.
You are on the ground and the point is literally in class A air space lmao
Not everyone can make it to the top, some people are limited by their hardware, lack of experience, age, etc
So “there has to be a top player” I mean, of course I’ve never seen anyone deny this
…yes? Not sure what your point is with this, or how it’s related to MMR reset
Yes, if you keep losing SR you’ll derank and if you keep winning you’ll rank up, pretty common sense.
However, this doesn’t mean that it’s impossible for a low sr player to get good and make it to masters, or a masters player to fall behind and drop.
Okay? I’m not sure how making an impossible analogy proves anything
In your perfect world where everyone has a near 50% wr? Idk I guess we would all be gold since that’s where all accounts start
Realistically? As I previously mentioned, those lose a lot will eventually become bronze and those who win a lot will eventually make it to a high rank
What? How does not wanting to start again in gold, against bronze and gm players mean that “I know I don’t belong in my rank!”
I’ve literally solo climbed from bronze/silver to low diamond twice. I could do it again, whether MMR reset or not.
And yes I would, but this doesn’t justify why we should have a MMR reset.
All you said in this post was “you don’t deserve your rank otherwise you’d want a MMR reset!”
I’m sorry but this is just dumb, I can literally say something like this to you as well.
You want a MMR reset because not only are you jealous of high ranked players who rightfully deserve and can maintain their ranks, but you also want to get lucky and place higher since you believe that you “aren’t where you belong!” Instead of simply grinding and actually getting good at the game.
And the end of the day, even if we had a MMR reset good players would eventually climb back and bad players derank. So all this would do is ruin gold-plat for months until the matchmaker settles down.
But you have no support for your argument other than random assertions. I have described how competitive ranking algorithms work. You have simply stated your gut feelings as absolute truths.
Except for the admission from the blizzard devs 5 years ago. Yes, the admission that you literally try to place a spin on. I’d call you a troll, but I think you actually just want to spin it that way. It doesn’t matter though. You acknowledge the dynamic exists, which is good enough.
What did they say? Did they say that they force a 50% win rate? No they did not. What they said was what I have explained to you two different ways. It does not mean what you think it means. What you think it means is absurd and counter-productive and would decrease their profits.
No one would design a PVP competitive mode that way if they valued profit. And the devs have never suggested that they did what you think they did.
Im assuming this is the thread that is being referred to
Your argument makes no sense. You created a premise that is (by your own words) “ridiculous” and doesn’t actually reflect the real world, and then try to apply that to the actual state of the competitive ladder.
The statement is at it’s core an unture statement. Not everyone in the world is of equal skill. Therefore the argument ends there. You can’t base any further observations off of an untrue statement.
1 Like
You didn’t address it tho, you just made an extreme example to prove your made up point.
Yes somebody’s SR can vary a bit (+/- 200 SR I would say) but the MMR isn’t holding or pushing people like you say.
We’re not going to continue to talk in circles. That always gets boring.
It’s purposefully and explicitly stated to be not representative of the real world to focus on how the system ultimately must function. I never stated nor claimed in my OP that people do not get placed where they belong. Perhaps you might want to try and read the post without your biases present. You might stumble across something that gets the wheels turning.
I didn’t make that claim, I was pointing out that your argument is nonsense.
You might want to also drop the attitude. You’ve got a little bit of a superiority complex going there.
1 Like
I view it more as a thought experiment, considering I never put forth an argument for or against an mmr reset in my OP. 
I simply stated that I am for an mmr reset. Not the same thing as arguing for it.
I ultimately will play the game regardless of whether or not they do one, which I guess I must remind everyone that it is confirmed that they will not perform one.
Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome. Sorry to dismiss the rest of your post, but the premise has already failed. My OP only states that there is an equality of opportunity. Every game there will be 6 winners and 6 losers. Some people will lose more than others due to external factors.
As an aside, since its kind of off topic, this is something I ultimately disagree with. At least in old times since they principally cast new characters to counter existing ones. It’s always made higher elo comp suck more since you have to switch to stay viable. We’ll have to see how they handle it going forward I guess.
Is not, if everybody has the same skill, nobody would be top 500 or bronze. This part is entirely BS, while they could use first come first served methodology to determine top 500, nobody would reach bronze if everybody started on gold by example.
While prior you said 2k players being top 500. I agree with it, at same time top 500 is a pool reserved either for the first to achieve the score or the ones who got that highest score.
In a perfect system where everybody has the same skill and nobody had any real life issues. All folks would be placed on the same rank, eventually everybody reaching the highest one. You win more points in a win than in a loss by default and part of the system works based on performance comparated to others(which was stated that would be the same). If you win 2 points and lose 1. Eventually everybody would reach the highest ranks, if everybody started at same spot.
The issue with rank reset it is more related to the nightmare created on the first season of it and on top of that the decay system, leading to a season with small number of players being able to achieve highest ranks. Leading to longer queue times, even higher than current ones on those ranks. Would take roughly 3-6 months to place folks where they belong and normatize it, leading of comp nightmare for a few seasons.
The decay system and multiple tiers of rank would help to improve the best state of the player, at same time would also favor who actually effectively play it and punish those who don’t. Making a perfect fit for competive, because was meant to be a serious and based on effort and skill, not the current joke that we have with several smurfs and accounts trainning heroes in there.
I understand their take on not hurting who plays seriously, if those doesn’t, they would decay and be punished by it. Anyone on top 500 should earn their position, I have some friends in there and most of them take the game seriously often feeling bad when they see someone who tricked the system to reach it or the ones who would appear in there just to mess some games.
Rank reset is a nightmare and only need to be done if you actually can’t gauge the playerskill or where they should. Having the “reset” means noobstomp in unnecessary ways, because uses the rule of the jungle. At same time if they’re gonna use rule of jungle they wouldn’t need lowest ranks they should just ban folks on that season if they drop too much making the system each time cut competitive players until only the elite stays.
Comp are meant to be serious mode and for folks who can be dedicated to the game. Reset would only be fair if anybody below average would get season ban and eventually get banned from comp. But blizzard wouldn’t do that, so they would rather decay folks MMR to divide folks on serious ones and the meme ones. The ones that stay consistently on higher ranks are the ones who are dedicated, the ones who falls are casuals, those crowd aren’t fit for comp.
That’s the best way to actually have some comp integrity in a game that has wide cast of heroes and diverse ways to play.
Rank resets doesn’t solve anything they done one in the past, if I remember correctly, and led to nightmare. Why repeat the same mistake?
You can’t reset your rank in a sequel because nobody has a rank to reset… But don’t tell Blizzard that.
Actually it does, in any chaotic system the system tends to reach balance. The outcome would be the same.
If you have the same input on both sides, it is 50% of winrate on both sides. You have the same individuals with the same skillset. The outcome would be balanced around the repetition, by that if you actually win more points than lose it. Everybody will be on the same place.
50 wins would mean 100 points, 50 loss would mean -50. In the end of 100 games all playerbase would have the same 50 points.
That outcome are set based on the input of variables. Even if you set variables with different values you actually reach some result, like collectivelly folks completing pokemon game by example with usage of trolls and folks putting effort to win.
The same system as the one used in a particular game of pokemon, are used to define most of the competitive systems. That’s why exist climb. Otherwise if you win the same you lose you stay in the same spot. That’s why folks compete on top 500 for score not exactly for skill, because their skill are similar at that point.
So, if your input are the same on all cases, your outcome should be the same considering the +2 in a win and -1 in a loss. Everybody would climb to the same place. While if is +1 and -1 would have fluctuation then, entropy to go back to previous state.
That’s why ranking system is assymetrical about what you win and what you lose. Because if you’re matched at same skill as yours you wouldn’t climb, nobody likes a competition who can’t earn progress by playing it, because at some point the skill difference will not be surpassed, reaching the epitome of it.
MMR reset will fix players who are ranked too high due to either broken metas in the past or just play styles that don’t exist in OW2 anymore. That’s it, that’s all it really fixes. I will NOT help anyone who is a lower rank climb beyond maybe a small meaningless spike in placements.
It’s mostly about clearing out players who say shot up one tricking Orisa in double shield or a doomfist one trick, when doom isn’t even a DPS anymore in OW2. The higher your rank, the more it helps your rank clean house so to speak.
1 Like
Sure. But when you do not actually know what was said, you should expect that others who have a clearer recollection will correct your factual errors.
I can’t tell if you are incapable of nuance or not. I didn’t say they will win equally, I said they play equally. Equality of outcome is not the same thing as equality of opportunity. Some people will win more than others in a ranked system. It’s baked into the very design of competition. You’re arguing outcome. That was not the focus. I only talked about opportunity. That is the focus.
The only situation that would happen imbalance on the system would be by:
- noise in the system generated by irregular values on expected the same value but couldn’t.
- irregular value of players.
- irregular value of matches per player.
If your metric are the same, the outcome are the same. So unless you put biased data, the outcome are predictable as the same.
Even on imbalance the entropy would lead, based on the sample size and number of the matches, to the same outcome.
Equally means as what my post said after yours. If you don’t judge equally you don’t have the metrics you said you had. Simply as that.
You can’t debunk an idea of equality because your equality wasn’t equality.
The outcome would be the same in a set period of time, because you have equality. 50% is the entropy resulted by that equality.
Bingo. And what is matchmaking if it isn’t noise? I invite you back to the entire premise of my OP.