This makes no sense because every balance change will come to OW1 too. They will share the same PVP mode. OW2 will feel the same as OW1.
Are you serious?
They tried to rework him once, nerfed him into the ground (he was OP but they nerfed him way too hard) after that making him worse than before then they’ve been buffing him recently which is really just compensation for those nerfs. He wasn’t touched for like a full year, more like 2 actually.
They have barely tried with bastion.
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Sym mains complain to this day about how the hero was wrecked beyond recognition. And in return we got a hero that statistically isn’t much better.
And plus the Devs from Overwatch 2 aren’t all the same Devs from the launch of Overwatch.
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Because you’ve put no thought into it.
I’ve played bastion for over 160 hours and I can tell you, he is worse. Do you want to be constantly looking for health packs, hiding during your cooldowns or being pocketed by a support? Well the new bastion is fun then I guess.
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Yeah thats kind of how i feel about the new bastion
he looks cool on the surface but…
a more mobile but weaker sentry, that is on a 10 second cooldown??
No self healing??
a…tactical grenade ?? (Why???)
and ult that is practically unusable unless you find somewhere to hide before executing it?
and based on what Super said (one of the pros that played OW2 that day) he said that he might even be weaker than Live.
Not only is this rework getting rid of the hero bastion players like, but its not even making him better
Frankly, this massive level of rework is unecesary.
you can quite literally reduce the damage of sentry a bit, put wheels on it, and leave the rest, and then you have a much better version of bastion than the one in OW2
The tactical grenade was added to stop bastion from dying if he got caught with his pants down in recon since they made it useless at close range. What they really should have done is lower the ammo back to 25 and then decrease the spread in compensation, maybe lowering damage a little bit. Getting caught in recon mode requires good aim to survive lest you are a fan of reloading. But it’s possible and doesn’t require a new ability. Oh yeah, and they want bastion to have mobility now that they changed his ult. They could of just not changed his ult though. Then he would still be able to rocket jump.
There is one thing I disagree with here, that adding mobility to bastion would actually make him better in sentry mode.
Mobility on sentry is stupid. Like really stupid. It would either be useless as it will be when OW2 launches or absurdly Overpowered.
Bastion has a really wide hitbox. This means in sentry mode, since his movement speed looks to be 0.5x normal he cannot dodge anything at any reasonable range. Infact the only possible time it would be helpful is when getting sniped by Phara on the other side of the map. That’s it. Incase you think he’ll be able to get behind cover faster, you are wrong. It’ll be about the same speed as transforming into recon and getting behind a wall. Giving him mobility also means he likely isn’t immune to knockback anymore. Which means it is actually a large nerf on its own, even without all the other stuff they did to Sentry. Sentry mode was designed to be immobile. It should stay that way.
Taking ironclad away in exchange for a small forward facing shield that can’t be broken but lasts for 0.25 seconds. That would require really good timing to use, so much so that I may never get the hang of it. I can now outplay CC with skill but in exchange for ironclad. Then maybe we can nerf his ammo and lower his spread. Maybe. This would be a much better rework then the OW2 garbage.
Ya the devs seem very picky on who the decided they will give slight buffs to fix and who they decided are unsalvageable and just abandon. I mean I remember when they did 3 experimental patches for moira just because they “wanted to make her more skilled”. Yet bastion is sitting over here doing nothing for the fourth year in a row.
They painted themselves into a corner with reworking when they decided on the 5v5.
Oh dont get me wrong, i dont think mobility is necesary on sentry
i just think that simply putting wheels of sentry on current bastion was a much faster and simpler rework to furfill what the developers wanted to do in a even better way because he would have both TANK and Sentry mobility
It’s not just uneccesary, it’s nearly useless. Infact is could even be nerf by itself due to the high possibility there will be no more or at least lower knockback resistance.
You are right that these other changes are even more unnecessary though.
Yep, some of them do, just like others like me who have supported the rightful Symmetra 3.0 rework since the very beginning.
On top of being a hero that has been numerically underpowered for most of her existence, may I remind you, in contrast to 2.0…
I would be in love with flying turrets.
THEY COULD FLY AROUND SYMMETRA’S HEAD LIKE KAEL’THAS SUNSTRIDER’S SUN ORBS
(Or ioun stones, if you played D&D…)
I was talking about Sym 1.0 and 2.0 (I think? I don’t know that much about Sym and I don’t really care about her). That’s why Sym mains whining about it was such a big deal, since it litterally happened years ago. Hanzo’s rework resulted in UP hero becoming an OP hero as well. Not exactly the best rework. So did Bastion’s before he got nerfed.
Reworks of this scale just shouldn’t happen full stop. Especially all my bastion knowledge that I got from playing him for 160 hours tell me he is going to be much worse and not better. And yes this taking into account the direction OW2 is heading.
Literally impossible with Orisa, Bastion and Sombra reworks.
I don’t get what some Symmetra mains crying about their hero getting reworked some years ago has to do with anything we’ve been talking about, but anyways…
Here’s your first mistake. You confuse a hero not being balanced well numerically after having received a rework as the entire rework being flawed.
Needless to say, you’re considering things out of context and shouldn’t have this mindset, especially when it comes to the future reworks.
Completely disagreed.
You haven’t played the new Bastion, so no, factually, you cannot know whether he’ll be better or worse.
You can, however speculate and even be angry about it up to an extent, as OW2 will be replacing OW1, so there’s no going back.
he might have not, but someone who did does agree with his point of view in a way.
but i think its possible to imagine how playing a character will be without having to play them, its hard, but its possible to get a rough idea
pair that up with what one of the pros said about bastion, and you get a pretty accurate picture
So first off, I made a mistake. I’m pretty sure people heavily complained about both. And the reason it’s significant is because it shows the long term negative effects extreme reworks have on this game. They should not happen ever. Especially with bastion you could have made a new hero by only changing the model a bit and making some other minor adjustments. There isn’t much of a difference between deleting a hero and reusing most of their assets for other heroes then reworking them to an extreme extent. It’s stupid.
Hanzo’s been over tuned for so ****ing long. Either it’s more than a numbers problem or the Devs are just incompetent. Either way, not selling me on this bastion rework. Hanzo has everything, utility, burst damage, sustained damage, mobility. The only thing he’s missing is a self-heal. Maybe it would have been better to let Hanzo hold on to his situational extreme burst damage rather than giving him the ability to double his DPS on a cooldown. Or maybe they could have just reworked the ability rather than replacing it. Who knows? Point is it did not end well.
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You haven’t played the new Bastion, so no, factually, you cannot know whether he’ll be better or worse.
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Sure, I can’t tell you with complete certainty he’ll be worse. But I have 160 hours on the hero, so I think my opinion should be given a bit more weight than yours. I could explain why bastion would be worse but I’ve already done so on other threads, it would be really easy for you to click on my icon and look at my recent activity. And there are people who are better at the game than me who agree with me, like Chibifox and Treb.
Oh yeah and the thing MaggyTheMage said.
Which pro is this by the way? Super? And can I have a source beyond hearsay?
i can only track it was far as this thread and the things people mention in it.
theres a video too, a highlight from his stream
And? Everything has some kind of a negative effect, nothing is black and white.
And if a percentage of a tiny part of the player base that used to be Sym 1.0/2.0 mains complaining is a “long term” side effect, how about the 3.0 rework introducing a more well - designed, versatile and skillful hero at the end of the day? Aren’t those actually long term effects of the rework?
Firstly, they aren’t deleting Bastion. He’s keeping all his signature abilities. Also, no, drastic changes aren’t inherently “stupid”…
They are though necessary when it comes to fundamentally terribly - designed heroes like Bastion.
It is a numbers problem, as most the time he was overturned his E hadn’t actually received any nerfs.
It didn’t end perfectly, sure.
If the actual rework to blame? I don’t think so.
You may think that’s true, the devs though surely don’t.
And thank God for that, as the days the entire game used to suffer just so the small percentage of the player base that happened to main certain heroes is appeased are long gone… Hence all the past rightful reworks.
It’s certainly a possibility, but, at least in Overwatch 2 the foundation will have been laid on top of Bastion’s current terribly - designed self that him becoming a respectful hero will only be some numerical changes away.
A rough first idea of a hero that hasn’t come out, as well as the anecdotal view point of a single pro player doesn’t paint even close to an accurate picture.
Either way, we’ll have to wait and see to be sure. But, with one condition: Players will have to adapt to this new version of the hero. If they keep playing him like his predecessor, fail and then come to the Forums to complain, needless to say how their opinions should be handled.