Personally, I like Mercy as she is and do not want any further changes made (except maybe more forgiving GA targeting that would let me get to the Widow who wont come to the edge for me to get to her)
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Firstly, you obviously didn’t read through my entire response before replying and you completely nitpicked very specific things, while entirely disregarding my reasoning behind what I’m saying while asking the exact same question I already answered. I’m not the one building on fallacies or bending words to empower my argument. Especially so, when I state my entire argument is not factual and is just my own personal analysis. You may want to take a debates class over again. You also act as if what you say is all that matters. There is NO persuading. You’re just right. If you enjoy Valkyrie, nobody else is not allowed to and there’s nothing wrong with Mercy (when the overall Mercy community through the OW Twitter, forums, Reddit, as well as YouTube. Even Youtubers who hate Mercy have stated how Valkyrie feels hallow).
I specifically state why the ultimates on these heroes are okay. They only make a SINGLE aspect of a hero easier, whereas, literally everything about Mercy is made easier. There is a huge difference in comparing them.
Moreso, yes, an ultimate can do too much while not doing well. The ultimate is so overly bloated that it does a bit of everything and is a master at nothing. This same reason is why Symmetra struggles. She dips her hand in too many roles while not being sufficient at any of them.
I didn’t state Soldier’s ultimate was boring. I compared it removing a single skill set compared to Mercy’s entire kit and every one of her important skills being made easier because of Valkyrie. To which, again, I said wasn’t a bad ultimate. It just may FEEL bad for players because of how it does too much.
Ana and Orisa’s ultimates do not impede on the character’s natural gameplay, which is already enjoyable on its own. If they had ultimates that reduced their skill ceiling, I can guarantee the community would have a problem with it. Especially Ana who is considered the pinnacle of support skill.
As for Winston, you’re flat out wrong. And I will say that. Winston’s ultimate does not reduce his skill set, it actually completely replaces them during the time of his ultimate. It completely changes his play style and plays differently than natural Winston. Nothing is the same about the two heroes besides he can still jump.
Valkyrie takes away more decisions than it provides, while also making the decisions added easier than they would be naturally without Valkyrie. An overall net negative.
Why do I even respond to you anyway? You’re so hard-headed and spew the same thing over and over every Mercy thread and literally never budge even slightly in your arguments. I had an amazing conversation with somebody else just yesterday where we both came to a reasonable compromise, and this happened with multiple people, but you are literally IMPOSSIBLE to argue because your opinion is just correct.
Think I’m wrong? Go read your own posts. You never change your opinion or compromise AT ALL.
So again, why do I respond to somebody who will only give me the same response nonstop…?
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Valkyrie is like supercharger-emp it doesn’t change the tide of battle by itself it help teammate to change it.
Transcendence?
I don’t think nerfing to a worst coalescence will make it any better.
Transcendence has immense power and immediate acknowledgement of doing its job when you negate multiple ultimates at once. That immediate gratification is what makes a difference.
As for Mercy, her ult is so long, the gratification is so watered down that it doesn’t FEEL the same. If the ult were much shorter and more powerful, it would probably feel more immediately gratifying.
That’s perfectly fine that you don’t think it would help. They weren’t meant to be answers to fix Mercy. I don’t mean for it to sound that way. I apologize if there is any confusion. I just used them as an example to explain that Valkyrie may be too split between what it meant to do, with those examples as evidence. It may definitely be wrong, and I do not mean to sound like I know how to fix Mercy.
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Just because you’re content with how Mercy is doesn’t mean you trump anybody else’s opinions on how they don’t like her.
The same was said about people who want Mass-Revive to be removed and a month later it was. The developers flip flop on issues to their heart’s content, I wouldn’t be so confident in your assertion here.
They loved D.Va’s 4 second defense matrix and then nerfed it a month later.
They thought Ana didn’t need any buffs after her sledgehammer nerf, and now they’ve buffed her to be the strongest support.
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I disagree entirely with your argument of Mercy having little individual impact moments. If your team is spread out and the enemy team is targeting you, good Mercy’s can use GA to dodge them while staying alive and healing their team. Have you ever used GA to dodge a Genji ult when that Genji is specifically targeting you? It feels rewarding because GA is a skill based movement ability with a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling.
Another time Mercy can make some individual impact is during Valkyrie. Yea I know, the spectator mode ult makes Mercy have no impact and just amplifies her healing for her team. But hear me out here, you could get out your pistol and target someone on the enemy team that is doing real well. I used to use Valkyrie to target good Widows because the majority of them never expect it and can’t 1v1 a flying Mercy at close range.
Mercy has plenty of hero moments to make. Sure they aren’t as apparent as other healers but she still has plenty nonetheless.
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i agree.
i find that this is true for those with an opposing opinion as well
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And we’re done. I wish I could say it was nice talking to you. You are incorrect about what I think. I suggest you don’t make grandiose assumptions like that if you actually want discussion.
I love how you end with argument from popularity though. So many fallacies.
Anyways, any more involvement with you is worthless. See ya!
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Who said I thought that? You don’t have an argument so you have to make one up.
Please read what you are quoting.
Her team reliance could be an issue, true, but I believe the main issue is Valkyrie poor design that doesn’t allow for much player expression, thus it doesn’t really matter for powerful it is, even if it’s OP and game changing, doesn’t play like thay.
Valkyrie needs to be tweaked. It’s just bad design.
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I find it to be a good design, myself
…That was what made her overpowered, though. ![:confused:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
Like, what you are unhappy about and expressing seems to be that she’s not as strong as she used to be while you aren’t proposing how to remedy this. But she shouldn’t be that strong again because she was too powerful.
Support. What does that mean? We should all be able to agree she is the most pure “Support” by design, as she has to actively stop healing and even swap weapons to do any damage on her own.
So obviously this is meant as a last ditch save yourself tool, not a staple of her gameplay.
And so, working as intended?
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Personally, I don’t think this is obvious, nor do I think it is true
Factually - all supports can do damage, and some of them are required to do damage in order to fully leverage their healing abilities
In my opinion, a good Mercy uses all of her kit as appropriate to the situation she finds herself in, including but not limited to her (imho) vastly underrated pistol
The standard here being that Valk is better than nothing I guess. I am dying, you can’t make this up
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Should I argue for it? Because I surely can, but if your finding trumps any reasoning then I shan’t bother.
You can like ice cream and still find out it was poorly made.
Eh, I disagree with this. So, the original version of valk was OP, not because it gave Mercy midfight potential to change the tide, but because it gave her too much of that ability, which combined with her consistent power and the ability to undo mistakes easily even outside of valk was OP.
Again, I really don’t think that’s what the OP is trying to express. The issue they are noting about Mercy is that she lacks any clear ways to show off individual player skill that requires impactful decision making.
For instance, a good zen needs to know who to discord, have great positioning, time their ult, and be able to land shots. You can easily tell the difference between a good or a bad zen, and a good zen feels impactful.
Lucio provides excellent engage, the ability to easily peel for themselves, make boops to peel or even kill enemies, and of course damage all while being one of ghe fastest characters in the game. You can easily tell the difference of a lucio who can land great boops or consistently do damage compared to someone who cannot.
Mercy doesn’t really have a clear way of showing off any mid fight potential or ways to impact a fight. You have damage boost, which can help while you pocket someone as the OP moted, but you’re giving up healing when you do so. You have to be able to use GA’s properly to position yourself so you’re safe, which is probably one of the biggest skill factors on her honestly.
And then there’s rez, which the implications of that are obvious. You can pull it off mid fight (which is amazing when done properly) but it’s not really reliable that you can always pull that off.
And then we come to valk which let’s you do everything but easier. Personally, I find it fun as I like zipping and zooming all over the place. But the design flaw the OP is trying to point out is that there’s no consistent or meaningful way to turn the tide of the fight like every other support can.
I personally think a lot of that stems from Rez on E. I really don’t think the OP wants mercy to be overpowered by any means. I think they were more or less outlining what they saw is a problem with the character.
Lastly, a few posts down the OP and a couple others discuss a couple ideas or thoughts as to possible changes.
(Hope I’m not coming off as overly rough against you, not really my intention).
Edit: Thought it was important to note, I don’t think she’s really weak right now. I do think her kit has some fundamental flaws that are worthy of discussion though, as much as I enjoy playing her.
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I have not claimed, nor will I, that my reasoning trumps anyone elses
There is indeed very bad ice cream out there. My local grocery sometimes sells 5 gallon buckets of it for a dollar. No thank you. But I can assure you that in this case, to extend the metaphor - I like the ice cream, and I also find it to be well made
For the people in the back row that still don’t get it. It’s still the weakest support ultimate by all means but any impact it has comes at the cost of a 15 second spectator mode. When Orisa, Widow or Ana pop ults do they give up anything remotely interesting about their playstyles? They still have to aim, prioritize targets, think of positioning, aim. If I use Valk to engage instead of defense here is what I do. I Pop it and watch beams connect to my team for 15 seconds. No Ga, no prioritization, no bunny hops for 15 seconds and all that for a minimum trade off in impact. If I use it defensively I end up flying away as my team dies until the enemy bothers to shoot me down. If I use it for battle mercy I have fun but get reported
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Jayne has stated that it is one of the most powerful ults in the game, and this was before it received two significant buffs recently