The Problem with nerfing Tracer and Buffing her counters

No, she is pretty much a bad pick till Masters, below average in Masters and only becomes average in GM. Stats don’t lie - your chances of winning a game higher if you don’t have Tracer in your team.

I’ll put it like this… In DnD a GM has to balance a campaign to fit the group. Slapping a lvl 20 Barb with a group of lvl 10s isn’t very fair, but buffing the whole group to lvl 20 isn’t fair for the GM because now everyone else is weak and going to get their butt kicked.

If you buff x heroes to meet a higher mark then the ones who do not get buffed will be weaker overall.

Tracer mains are aaaaaaall over the top 500. They need to make mistakes to actually get killed and many many pros, especially koreans want her nerfed. However in low/mid tiers she is not op…not at all and that is the Problem that i am talking about here. It is not fair to simply nerf her and make her even trash in low/mid tier

Buffing her counters also produces the problem that those are too strong against everyone else.

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Keep her cooldowns/abilities and reduce the magazine size on her guns by a little bit.

She’ll be exactly the same strength in low/mid tier and be slightly weaker in high tier.

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and doomfist 100 hp?

First thing we need to decide whether top-500 representation is a problem in itself. This is a very small percentage of playerbase, many of them are same people so it is more like top-200.
Should devs really aim for diversifying game for 200 specific players at the cost of the rest of the ladder? I will argue that they will exploit whatever opportunity they can and any hero giving them the slightest edge will become the new “Tracer”.

Secondly are pro games. As OWL showed us, Tracer is a symptom of a dive meta. She is played only in tandem with Winston+D.Va, who both have significantly higher pickrate. Tracer is barely played with either Rein or Orisa. She is not that great without dive tanks, but dive tanks are great even without her. She is also played only about 40% on Kings Row which is a good indicator that map design may dictate meta more than anything else.
While some pro players think she is overpowered, others are not - recently Jake from Huston Outlaws told that only really overpowered heroes are Winston and D.Va and Tracer should not be nerfed. Many think that his team struggles from a lack of good Tracer so he should be biased against Tracer, not pro-Tracer.

In general I agree that nerfing hero who is only good for 1% of players without any consideration of the rest is a bad idea and will only make this hero a new troll/throw pick. At the same time, trying to pile on more and more counters is a bad approach either - these counters will not be played at the highest echelons if they are not generally good heroes so they won’t solve the issue in the slightest.

Any potential changes to Tracer must not only include her weakening in top-500/OWL, but for increasing her power in Bronze-Master range.

Doomfist and Mercy to 100 HP, Lucio to 125, Moira to 150. Same logic right?

Sounds like you want to punish high tier players just because there are less of them? sounds unfair.

The “buffing the counters” never works in any argument. The reason for this is if you buff all the counters, then all the other non-counters will just get left in the dust. We are kind of seeing this with Brigitte. You want anti-dive sure here’s Brigitte. But for all the heroes that weren’t strong enough to counter dive before, you guys are now worthless.

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I do not. Higher players do not suffer from Tracer, she repeatedly shows average performance in GM. My position is Tracer does not need balance changes as of now. If you want to change her pickrate at higher tiers, dive tanks should be addressed first.

Anyone not paying attention to a Tracer in your backlines is going to have dead supports. There is no situation where Tracer is a bad DPS pick comparative to the rest of the attack class.

Because the forums don’t want Genji and Tracer nerfed, they want them useless and never played again.

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I find it amusing that people like to use the argument that no one should fight Moira/Brigitte alone if they can help it, and to always attack them with your team/focus fire them. Yet refuse to use the same argument for Tracer. I wonder why. And just in case someone thinks I’m being serious about my bemusement toward the thought, I’m not actually bemused at all. I know exactly why.

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Totally wrong. Dive tanks have enough viable counters it’s the likes of tracer that gets away with everything and even rek those counters for them

Dude a looooot of pros are saying she is op which proves my point all together. The higher you go the more op she is “point”.
Also she does not see avarage usage in gm? like wtf? There was a official statistic of Blizz that came out shortly and she was the most used hero if i remember correctly…definitly in the top 3. Also of course her winrate isn’t 100% in highest tiers beeeecause she is in most matches against the exact same comps and other Tracers.

Then don’t buff her counters just nerf her

EDIT: ok need reasoning and a idea for a nerf. How about how a true rewind works? If she rewinds back to a point where she had 50 hp. She should be at 50hp not the highest during the rewind. Same goes for her guns.

There, now you can’t just dive in Willy nilly after grabbing a hp pack.

Tracer only good bcos of winston/dva beign must picks on most of the maps.
On maps winston/dva is not must picks tracer isn’t played aswell.
Nerf winston/d.va synergy(not heroes themselves) should solve the problem, but honestly i have no idea how to do it.

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You don’t know what you are talking about.

Dive tanks have counters but Winston erases Dva counters and Dva erases Winston counters.

Even if Tracer has no counter it doesn’t change the fact that when coupled Dva and Winston have no counters too.

Truly a puzzle :thinking:

Clearly that line of reasoning can only be applied to supports!

As for Tracer, nerf her damage people here will complain about mobility. Nerf mobility, people here will complain about damage.

Lot of people complaining are from ranks her stats are trash in and where mechanical aim is lacking. Lot of the people saying she’s easy or has a forgiving kit typically have something like 4 hours of her in QP with a 1.5kdr and understandably don’t even try playing her in comp.

Ah forum never change. 125 hp Tracer and 150 hp Genji :rofl: Support main, I take it?

tracer litterly was destroying my team in plat, and i was heavily trying to counter her but its impossible shes so fast and she can’t be hit cause she goes behind her team then comes back and destroys us again , she does need a nerf

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Yeah its kind of hard to counter her. As zen i can kill her in a duell the most consitent way to deal with her is a own tracer with a heal orb on her.