Mercy isn’t trash now but her ult is just mind numbingly boring and unimpactful.
You continue to prove your failure to read with your mockery of things that you are mistakenly seeing out of context from prior mentioned failure to read. I am done with you until you actually learn to read before posting.
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The maps where Brigitte will probably be good Pharah won’t be good. Brigitte is good in brawly Rein comps. The maps those are good on Pharah isn’t and vice versa.
Brigitte directly leads to more diversity because the armor she grants makes character generally perceived as F-Tier more viable. Due to this she also leads to more diversity by encouraging counter picks to occur, when those counter picks then encourage other counter picks.
The problem would be if in the counter picking Brigitte would be dropped and people just swap back to dive to counter everything. Since Brigitte being around is what causes dive characters to be less picked.
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Yeah so true! They also have to nerf Widow! If the enemy team has a Widow it forces your team to have a shield and a flanker that can get close to her and kill her or at least another Widow to do so.
So OP! /s
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Now this is a very good argument. I am not sure I agree with it, but at least it shows you’ve thought about the issue.
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Okay, so your argument is that if one team has a Brigitte, the best counter to that is a Pharah/Pharmercy. Fair enough. You are then continuing to argue that as a result of that, the other team will have to run a double hitscan or hitscan+Zen. Okay, I can see that.
Where you’re losing me is when you say she has almost 100% pickrate like it’s in any way comparable to how Mercy had almost 100% pickrate. It’s not.
And apart from that, Pharah is just the easiest counter to her, not the only one. Any ranged hero with sustained fire can deal with her. An attack from 2 directions works as well.
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Neither does Brigitte. Why? Because she is not playable in comp yet. In QP, counter-picking is highly optional. It’s too early to make conclusions what is a must pick against her and what can work but not too well. Plus, it’s not like she counters everyone but Pharah and Junkrat as hard as Bastion counters Winston, for example.
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LOL no.
You apparently do not understand how dive comps works.
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Brigitte is worthless if she isn’t in the faces of the enemy. Anyone with any sort of range can kill her. Her counters aren’t just Pharah and Junkrat. Sure, as you say, they’re the most optimal, but that doesn’t mean they’re must picks to counter her.
Very good post. Now here is my personal experience, and opinion derived from that. You can take it as you will.
As I’ve said I have seen roughly a 95% pick rate of Brigitte since she came out. It has dropped slightly since the first day’s 100% rate, but the falloff has not been as large as I would have expected. It is my belief that this failure to fall off is due to the collective community opinion - regardless of whether they are right - that Brigitte is OP. I repeat I am not saying that here and want this thread to be without that as an actual consideration.
Now to my mind, if this is the community’s opinion it will not change without a nerf to force a change or other heroes becoming buffed enough to overcome the perception.
External to that is the counters and chaining situation. I have as I said played many games where both teams had a Brigitte. Obviously one side had to lose. Now, it could be observer bias or sheer random luck, but from my observations the team with a Pharah and Brigitte on it usually beat the team with a Junkrat and Brigitte on it, and almost always beat the team with a Brigitte and a different pseudo counter on it. I’m not saying that a Pharah and Brigitte team will always beat a Brigitte team with no Pharah on it when faced head to head, but I am simply reporting my observations and feelings that it may be a stronger counter.
To continue the picks and counter pick chaining… I have seen multiple games where both teams had both a Brigitte and a Pharah but only one of the two teams had a Soldier or McCree. Almost invariably the team with all 3 of Brigitte, Pharah, Soldier/McCree beat the team with just Brigitte and Pharah.
Now as further mentioned, Mercy and Pharah work really well together, and Mercy and Brigitte work well as healers on the same team. I haven’t seen enough games to prove the quad pick chain but I would not doubt its strength.
My point through all of this is that a team that has the full chain does better against the team without the full chain. Thus meaning that if Brigitte remains an always picked hero, by necessity so will all the others in the chain if your team wants a better chance at winning. The new meta so to speak. Again, I am not saying that a team could not win against a Brigitte without it, merely that it seems to give the best chance of results.
It has been pointed out by others such as Matrim that Brig is not yet into comp scene yet. Which is precisely why I feel the hero needs to be nerfed before this same issue moves to there. Right now, when she is only available in quick play and the arcade, it doesn’t really matter if your team loses. So having the best counters doesn’t really matter and people are likely to try whatever to counter her.
But once she goes live in comp then teams will be forced to pick and counter pick whereas in qp it can be anything goes more or less. That means that the most effective picks and counter picks will show up more often, which in turn means that the entire chain will be seen in your comp matches on one or both teams. Over and over. Until you get sick of seeing it.
Which is my whole point in how her presence ruins diversity beyond Mercy’s ult did before.
There have always been hard counters for one hero or another. But all previous heroes didn’t have an entire chain of picks and counter picks like Brig now does. Furthermore, the entire chain of picks and counter picks were already all pretty much meta instead of being “F Tier”. Pharah had hitscans but those could be fought by pretty much any hero in the game which made her a safe chain starter for avoiding third tier chaining. The same was true with other heroes with a pick and counter chain. All had the third part of the chain be doable by anyone without needing a hard counter.
Until this. Brigitte : Pharah : Soldier/McCree is a pretty narrow chain diversity.
I’m not sure if everyone will agree, but that is what my thoughts on the matter are. And from personal experience / observation the results in matches seem to reflect it.
I am going to disagree with this on similar grounds to other people’s disagreements. You are judging a character’s impact around launch week and surmising the character will significantly impact pick diversity. This is just not reliable.
For starters, QP does not really deal in counter picking, or even coordinated team picks. People on Team A will have a Brigitte because people on Team A want to play Brigitte (as she is new and fun). The other 5 people are going to pick their heroes based almost solely off of who they want to play. Rarely will a single other person choose a pick for synergy with another teammate if not in a group. Even more rarely will a person counterpick an anticipated enemy pick.
Now, maybe the enemy sees the Brigitte as a threat and start complaining. Rarely will you get an enemy swap, but if you do, it will likely be to a hero that player is comfortable on. Maybe it will be Pharah, but this is QP, so unless you already had a Mercy, you probably won’t get a PharaMercy.
The Picks in QP are too random, too pointless, and often have Nothing to do with anyone else in the game at all.
However, if you are projecting to Competitive, you need understand that she will not be an optimal pick on most maps. She will be great on Brawly maps. Any place where Reinhart is good, she will be good. Any place where Reinhart is OK she will make him better, and they will be serviceable.
Maybe then you will get this kind of Brigitte Comp like you are worried about, but that is just playing to a map-specific meta. Off-Meta will still work, and people will find counters to that Meta.
I mean, the buffs to Mei and Reaper will leave comps like the one you are worried about just broken. Then you will see swaps to counter that. Then the other team will either swap to counter the counter or lose. Then the first team that was countered that swapped to counter will need to swap to counter the counter of their initial counter or lose.
See, the game will evolve. Brigitte does not ruin diversity, her impact is actually completely unknown. She may, in fact, enable diversity.
Don’t worry. Season 10 hasn’t happened yet.
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Yeah, but that implies that you pick Brigitte to begin with. As someone who plays all supports in comp, I don’t think she’s going to be in every match or anything close to it (at least after her “newness” wears off). Remember, Brigitte still has to take up a support slot. She can’t solo heal, and she still has to compete with all the other healers (and maybe Symmetra someday), for the second healing slot.
For all the hype about Briggite, I personally wouldn’t pick her in that many situations just because she has to be close range to do anything, and her biggest value comes when your team is grouped together; and that limits the number of comps where she’s more effective than another healer. If I was getting flanked and someone else had Moira, then Brigitte is probably a good switch. If we ran a Bastion cheese comp then maybe Brigitte would be good, maybe Zenny discord would be better and more reliable, it depends on the enemy team comp.
let her be for one month. then we can begin to talk about wether or not she needs nerfs.
I wish I agreed. It is my opinion that far too many people believe that she is “OP”. I repeat I am not saying that she is. I fear that she will remain popular long after launch as long as that “OP” tag is applied to her by the community in general.
Unlike the prior period of popularity Mercy experienced, this will be a whole different game. Mercy didn’t really need a counter pick, just needed one on each team. Brigitte needs some kind of counter or she will dominate payloads and control points. And therein the chaining begins.
The only reason she must be nerfed. OPs sym icon
I did read you’re just not reading my post sweety you’re arguing over slots and diversity and i’m sorry to say this she’s not mandatory or as unbalanced as mercy was that forced everyone to play around her and take this from a mercy main bc ik what im talking about, i warned everyone what she would turn into but no one listened now we have this boring support thats balanced so i doubt she’ll see changes for awhile .
BTW if you wanna actually discuss and be constructive try not to act like you’re better than everyone cheers
You can also see the overwhelming amount of opposition and people trying to provide you with tips and stuff that you’re ignoring or brushing off, guessing you’re a sym main due to icon i can assume you just don’t like brigitte because she counters you hard but in all actuality this is a sym problem not a brigitte
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But I do have to say that this will probably happen with Junkrat. Unless some more nerfs hit Junk then he would have been picked regardless in the maps where she would be picked.
That is why releasing “counters” and the game of “counter” won’t work.
They will eventually have to nerf Genji and Tracer rather than attempt to release these so-called “counters” which provoke more problems.
The core problem is those 2, I’ve said this since 2016. Let’s see how far they could go in this wrong path of balancing.
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Imo mercy was better for dps and tanks diversity but she just killed support diversity
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