i feel the exact same way, give me a support with no gun but high survivability and team buffs. with that being said my favorite supports are mercy and lifeweaver.
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Moira doesn´t even have a weapon, lol.
And as a support main, I would HATE to play a hero without any dps utility.
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And they never will, because want to keep trying to lure dps players into support role.
I wonât, as long as my support utility is strong enough to compensate for it, regardless from quality of teammate itâs used on. Except devs are bad at making such utilities.
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Youâre right and I really donât understand why theyâre so insistent on this. There are more than enough carry supports for dps players to flex to. They need to double down on trying to get more of them to play tank. Itâs kinda getting ridiculous.
There can be several situations where your damage can be higher than healing especially on heroes like Zen or Bap. Besides I see 10 times more healbot supports than dps supports. Should we reduce their healing by 50% until they start doing damage?
Somehow I doubt that a bap who has 10k damage 6k healing and is 35-8 is throwing. I believe thatâd be carrying
On a related and controversial note, I think this is why dps queues are so much lower in OW2. Not because of one less tank slot to fill, but because dps mains are now flexing into the dps-friendly supports.
Totally with you on the tank part, but hey Blizz already made tank heroes dps-friendly and they are so much more fun now. The problem is no one wants to solo tank. But again thatâs a whole other rantâŚ
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I am 100% against heroes that make support a spectator role.
let me afk behind my dps and flame them for beeing so bad useless bronze players while I hold M1 doing 100% of my potential input.
so fun, so enjoying, much engagement.
Especially when the enemy supports rival their dps in dmg and kills, I can be glad when my supports even heal at all. While the enemy support sits on 8k dmg.
makes me believe supports unable to deal dmg getting diffed ask for this change. 
i know its a huge reason I q support because mine just do 0 dmg anf expect the team to do everything while they just hold their one heal button.
meanwhile enemy illari / bap farming the lobby.
A Support who cannot deal some form of DPS is useless during a team fight, that is just a straight up face and is one of the biggest reason Mercy is so garbage. Having strong utility and healing is simply not enough for a support to be effective, you need to contribute to your teams damage output. Hell Zenyatta and Lucio were the first supports on launch and they are encouraged to deal damage along with healing.
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If Supports arenât practically DPS that can heal⌠honestly itâs just boring. If you like to healbot, play a healbot hero. The rest of us will have fun on skillful heroes like Juno.
Sure, so lets design a support with no weapon.
Questions:
- How do they heal?
- How do they move?
- How do they stay alive?
- How are they fun?
- What skills do they require to play?
So another hero that does damage like Mercy or Lifeweaver? I hardcore second that. Supports shouldnât have intrusive abilities and they should be focused on helping their teammates to any capacity rather than be a toxic and hostile support like Ana who has 2 of the most horrible and intrusive CCâs in their kit from all the heroes.
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This wonât work. The supportâs abilities will end up useless and easily ignored or they will be complained about forever until and even after they are nerfed into the dirt.
There isnât a single support utility ability that hasnât been complained about until itâs gotten reworked or nerfed at some point, not a single one. Releasing a support with more emphasis on that would be very unpopular. No matter what it is, people seem to always overexaggerate anything a support does even decently and act like itâs ruining the game.
They donât want them to focus on healing or their healing to be effective because then âthings never dieâ and theyâre âhealbotsâ
They donât want their damage to be threatening, even if it requires more skill than a lot of the characters in the damage roster to be consistent with such as Kirikoâs kunai, because thatâs the âdamage playerâs jobâ
They donât want them to have decent survivability because then âthe supports never dieâ
They donât even want supports to be able to boost their own team OR debuff the enemy team because then itâs âanti-funâ
Supports have been heavily complained about for any and every reason. People want them to be weak, extremely mechanically difficult, easily and heavily punishable, unforgiving, and unimpactful so they donât âdisruptâ the enemyâs own playstyle too much or inconvenience the people trying to kill them or their team in any way. They tried to balance out bad players with the s9 changes but you canât balance out stupid. People focusing too much on damage is that playerâs personal problem, not a support role problem.
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I agree with this. Juno is actually very balanced support, in terms of her healing and damage output. She is actually prime example, that even a non dps hybrid support, can be very fun to play. While she needs buffs imo, her offensive capabilities (damage) are fine, and shoud not be touched, to maintain what i feel is her identity.
That being said:
Support isnât starving for players, mainly because Blizzard released bunch of DPS/support hybrids (Zen, Bap, Kiri, Illiari) that appeal to players, that would otherwise not touch the role at all. Thanks to these heroes, support popularity is much higher and closer to dpsâs popularity than it was in OW1 (to what i heard).
I flex between DPS and Support, and dps/support hybrids are the most fun supports to play in my opinion. While i do agree, there is absolutely room for both (Lucio being one of the best supports in the game, and not being considred a dps hybrid at all), they should be released equally in numbers.
There is nothing that says a good support has to have their healing numbers higher than damage numbers, as long as they donât neglect healing completely. Already mentioned Lucio is prime example of that.
While i agree that DPSing only supports are annoying, these players are basically sabotaging the game, which is bannable offense, and need to be reported.
And that is why, ideas like these:
Are the most stupid someone can ever have, and shouldnât be taken seriously.
Itâs enough, if itâs truly strong utility. Especially when it increases survivability of teammates without making them back off from combat.
???
Everyone needs a weapon??
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I do believe it was meant to be hyperbolic.
its âsupportâ NOT âhealersâ⌠fundamentally, your approach is wrong to assume that Support is only supposed to âhealâ. That is wrong!
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Ana? Lucio? Brig?
If all you are doing is dpsing with them, you lose miserably.
With Moira, Illari, and now Juno, there is a lot of temptation to run and gun and just play the action instead of helping your team.
Again, my point is to make heroes that have less uptime with their weapon, otherwise dps meatheads are going to instalock them and dps all day with them.
All three of them have had their utility complained about and itâs been nerfed and for some, continues to be changed/nerfed. If you play a character poorly and sandbag your team, you usually lose, this isnât exclusive to the support role. If a damage player doesnât prioritize the right targets, canât finish people off, or ignore their backline getting harassed, they generally sandbag and cause their team to lose as well. Itâs the same for a tank not helping their team.
No there isnât. There is emphasis on gunning IN ADDITION to helping your team because thatâs how they were designed due to their lack of other utility. What do you expect Illari or Moira to do when their team doesnât need heals? Just sit on standby? what about when Moira runs out of healing resource? Not refill it with the mechanic designed to refill it quicker? You expect Illari to sit and watch her team die as her rifle recharges and not shoot?
A huge thing that sets good support players apart from the rest is the ability to help finish off kills and apply offensive pressure.
Nah, because this doesnât help anything and will just hurt the entire role. You have characters with 4-second mobility tools who can constantly harass the backline. YOu have characters with easy get-out-of-jail abilities, yet you want to nerf the entire support role.
If you want to double down on this dumb idea, at least be consistent and advocate for damage players getting their survivability/defensive/mobility options nerfed so they need to rely on their team just as hard. revert all the tank buffs as well.
God forbid people are learning her.
Ok so you have no idea how she works either.