The new PTR proves the devs dont listen


#89

Except for the fact hes gotten 3 buffs in the last 45 days. And no nerfs. Despite having consistently decent stats.

And saying Reaper isn’t as popular as Tracer and Genji is just wrong… OUTRIGHT WRONG. He and tracer are equally as popular.

Reaper has been in 3 animated shorts, 3 christmas/anniversay stop-motion videos with Tracer. And he’s probably one of the top 5 most recognizable characters in recent years. People who don’t even play the game like reaper. But on top of that, characters are buffed and nerfed based upon their popularity, it’s based upon the viability in the game. That’s the exact reason why Tracer and Genji aren’t getting anything because they’re viable.

But even if we were to go along with what you said… The fact that he’s not popular would be a reason for a buff.


#90

You’re not supposed to used Shadowstep to engage. You’re supposed to use it to put yourself in a position to engage… IT’s not meant to be a teamfight ability. You’re supposed to use it to flank behind/above the enemy BEFORE THE TEAMFIGHT STARTS. Then you catch someone off guard, and you wraith the hell out of there.

Not every hero is designed to face-up. Reaper, Sombra, and Tracer (to a lesser degree) are SPECIFICALLY designed to shoot people in the back/back of the head) if you’re trying to ENGAGE the fight face to face, or you’re using Shadow-step to engage, you’re using him and his abilites improperly. There’s no other way to put it. If MOST of your elims aren’t coming from shooting people in the back… YOU ARE PLAYING WRONG.


#91

I’ve been praying to Papa Senpai Waifu Jeff for an armor nerf for AGES. The PTR patch proves that he is listening.


#92

Uh… The armor change didn’t change the fact that Reaper’s damage output is still cleaved by armor. In regards to Reaper, this change only increased his damage/pellet by 0.5, which means that his damage against armored targets has been increased by a pathetic 10/shot, from 70 to 80, and that’s assuming all of his pellets land… in other words, Reaper needs to be at point-blank range to see even the slightest benefit of these changes against armor.

Reaper needed to be better against armor.
Reaper did not need to be better against anything but armor, and armor certainly didn’t need to be worse against everyone that isn’t Reaper.


#93

blizzard is dying company. The ship is sinking.


#94

as someone who is in a lower rank (silver), there is a huge influx of reaper play since the buff, and most of the time the reaper has such an impact because killing him would require some communication(something that isn’t common in silver) You can’t kill a reaper now going at him one hero at a time (this would happen when he is flanking the backline, one hero would go in alone and once they die, then another tries to kill him after actually noticing him) , his self-heal means he would practically be full health at the end of it. You need a proper push against him with more than one hero (unless its like Mc Cree or a widow or hanzo from a distance) but a push against him requires communication… I main Mc Cree and try to look after my backline so I usually wreck him with the flashbang but not every match has a decent Mc Cree in it. I’ve seen Reaper get a triple kill without ult before the frontline actually notices him (i was playing support and died) I think the main problem is lack of awareness and communication in lower rank.


#95

Your math is incorrect, just saying.

Edit: you math was fine, but you application of the raw numbers is incomplete.


#96

How so?

Reaper’s shotguns fire 20 pellets, each dealing 7 damage if there is no falloff. Currently, armor reduces the damage taken by the wearer by 50% per instance of damage (per pellet in this case), up to 5 damage for every instance. This means that on live servers, Reaper’s damage/pellet is reduced by half (from 7 to 3.5), halving his total damage output of 140 damage/shot to 70 damage/shot.

On the PTR, the maximum damage blocked by armor has been reduced to 3. This brings Reaper’s damage/pellet up to 4 against armor (hence the increase in damage/pellet by .5), therefore bringing his damage/shot up to 80.

So where’s the error in my math?


#97

Let me start by saying sorry, your math isn’t wrong… but how you are quantifying and looking at it is. Which is why you aren’t recognizing how significant this buff is.

It’s almost like you’re not looking at the entire buff, you’re only looking at RAW numbers, which is only part of the quotient. But here’s the reality;

  • Reaper gets a 14% damage buff against armored targets. (non-crit)
  • A 22% damage buff against armored targets. (headshot/crit)
  • His lifesteal gets a 90% buff against armored targets (non-critical)
  • His lifesteal gets a 96% buff against armored targets (headshot/crit)
  • His lifesteal gets a 66% buff against unarmored targets (non-critical)
  • His lifesteal gets a 66% buff against unarmored targets (headshot/crit)

Look at those percentages and tell me ANY of them aren’t significant.
Sure .5 sounds lame, but it adds up to 14% additional damage, to who is already one of the most damage heavy heroes in the game. That’s nothing to snub your nose at.

And while you’re not likely to land every pellet you shoot, you’re also not considering his spread, and how you’re just as likely to land critical hits than non crits… Meaning that 14% buff becomes a 22% damage buff against armored targets. But even if we average the buff between the two (crit/non-crit), that’s an average of 18% buffed.

And guess what, because of that 18% boost, healing becomes less effective because NO HEALERS can heal through that damage. Moira who can heal a max of 80 per second, and Ana who does 75 healing per shot are the closest, but even they fall short. Mercy, Lucio, Zen, and Brig may as well not even bother trying to heal through Reaper’s damage because he’s chewing through everything, and with lifesteal, he can survive much better.

And that’s not even considering Reaper damaged boosted by Mercy, which adds an extra 30% damage AND PASSIVE HEALING on top of that, or a Nano’d Reaper.

He’s in a better place than 95% of the roster. FACTS. Show me a hero that has had that many buffs in one patch that’s wasn’t a complete rework. My point is that he should not be able to break 3 tanks all by himself, and if he gets any stronger, he’s going to be OP. And then it’ll just be another issue they’ll have to deal with sooner or later, and he’ll get nerfed into the ground.


#98

Like every other comment like this there are CONSTANT points made against this claim… The Devs have no clue how to listen to the right people (noncasual players such as spirit{https://www.twitch.tv/spiritow} one of the highest rated Reaper players in the game)… LGBT characters don’t change the game… the Devs like publicity… They like making is SEEM like they give a dang not only that but the change to Reaper haven’t a clue what to actually do to make him more viable… Armour like most changes don’t even impact the right things… people want Tracer back but Armour was a nerf to Tracer’s ability to do burst damage to squishes. all in all the Devs need to obey their corporate owners in the publicity circle (LGBT characters) and the changes will cause a poop-show in every rank.


#99

im sure they have plenty of input from players that know how to play different characters…and they probably also have 1 billion different options to choose from…i mean you could pose the question of how to fix goats to 100 different people and youre going to get 100 different answers…there are no simple fixes to anything in this game…and there is no ONE solution to anything either…they can try 1 or 2 things at a time to address things in game…and often times it doesnt work…sometimes it does…doesnt mean they arent listening to people…just means it didnt work out…

(not to mention we’re all speculating these changes wont work…we dont KNOW anything for a fact)

and i stand by my earlier comment btw…i spend waaaaay too much time on these forums…ive seen people call for all three


#100

Pretty much nothing you said here is in conflict with anything I have said.

I never said that Reaper wasn’t going to be too powerful. I fully expect him to be meta at the very least.

Reaper needed a buff. There is no question about it. The thing is that he needed a buff that makes him better against tanks (and therefore armor), not a buff that makes him better against everyone, while still leaving him sub-par in the engagement he is supposed to excel in.

Most tanks have a means of blocking damage, which means that when Reaper lands one of his shots on armored targets, they need to really mean something, or the tank will just be healed while using one of their means to block damage.

Those shots don’t mean much. 80 damage isn’t significant in this context, especially not when that’s likely the most damage a single shot will ever deal in this situation. In turn, the effect Reaper had is null, and he’s probably about to die to focus fire unless he is receiving healing/shielding of his own.

Reaper is supposed to be a tank buster. These changes make him excel at… killing anything that isn’t a tank. If you want sheer tank-busting capacity, you’d still be better off picking some of the other heroes; Pharah, Junkrat, and McFTH come to mind.


#101

They haven’t even attempted to touch it yet.

There is no reason to replace it either. The only thing it needs is to be made more reliable. It is too slow and clunky and is pointless to use.

THATS what’s holding him back. They don’t need to replace it, they have done jack-all with it.


#102

You couldn’t be more wrong. Reaper sucks at getting behind the enemy. His footsteps are so loud everyone will hear you before you ever get close enough to be useful.

The best way to play him is to be taxi’d around by Lucio and use shadowstep only to come back from spawn faster.

If you’re getting most of your kills with Reaper from enemy’s backs then they have absolutely no awareness.


#103

armor change more beneficial to reaper’s crits
Like
Before change if all his pellets hit head, then:
(14-5)*20=180 per full headshot
now it’s
(14-3)*20=220 per full headshot
So, like +40 extra damage to headshots against armored targets.

Doesn’t matter, Reaper is near useless if he isn’t in point blank range.


#104
  1. Yes most Tanks have a means for blocking incoming damage… True. But you should not be facing up with a tank, even if you’re a Reaper. You should be flanking or dropping in on them when you can. Catching people off guard is Reaper’s whole thing.

  2. Again, it’s going to be more than 80 more often than not because you’re going to land some crits… So even if all the pellets don’t hit, the critical multiplier will more than compensate.

  3. How can a Reaper who’s playing Reaper the proper way ever get focused outside of his Ult? You act like he’s going to just jump in front of the whole team, not move, and just get fired on from all 6 enemies. With his lifesteal buff, there’s hardly any one who’s going to out-damage him… Becasue he’s going to continuously be at full health while yours is dropping.

  4. Reaper is a Tank buster, and always has been. But he can’t do it alone. You can’t have 3 tanks and 3 healers, and expect 1 Reaper to bust 3 tanks every teamfight. But as it stands, with this buff, he’s going to shred. And with armor getting nerfed, and healing being nerfed, tank aren’t going to be able to outlast.

As I said, no healer can output enough healing to offset reapers guns, and at close range, it’ll be an automatic death.

part of busting tanks is not just about doing more damage, it’s about having the independent survivability to wear your opponents down. So now he’s harder to kill, and does more damage.

But if people are going to run GOATS, they’re going to need to release more tank-busting heroes… Or make the ones we have more viable. Which they did with Reaper.


#105

Maybe you suck at getting behind the enemy with Reaper… MY point is that Reaper is about catching stragglers, people out of position, and surprising his victims. You shouldn’t be charging in on the front lines, because you’ll just get focused. And with the game being as damage heavy as it’s ever been, you’ve got to employ strategy and tactics.

You shouldn’t do that with anyone, but everytime people propose a scenario they act like people are just going to jump in the middle of the entire enemy team and just stand there.

Also , Lucio shouldn’t really be taxi’ing Reaper around, unless it’s mid team-fight. Lucio should be with the team where he can impact the most people (and charge his ult… which he really can’t do AT ALL with Reaper since his lifesteal now outheals anything Lucio could give him, and speed won’t help Reaper reap more than it’ll help everyone else, and again, charge Lucio’s ult faster.

Maybe Mercy for the damage boost which is INSANE now… But not a Lucio. It’s a waste of resources to attach him to one hero on a flank. Not to mention Lucio is noisier than Reaper.

Also, typically by the time you hear a good Reaper, you’re already dead.


#106

how could this be possible… Solo kill 1v3 tanks?


#107

If tanks are not very coordinated, or have poor awareness, Reaper can go right through them. His self-healing is near point, where it can be impossible to kill Reaper as any solo tank.


#108

I didn’t say Shadowstep should be an engage. But the fact thats its the only non-combat ability on a combat focused hero IN THE ENTIRE GAME already shows how flawed its design is
And Reaper is just about the only DPS hero designed to be face-up. The proof? His maximum effective range is like 3m, after that, his spread and falloff become unbearable.
And since you already mentioned some “shoot in the back” style characters: why shouldn’t I just play Tracer or Genji for that? They get into position much better than Reaper, they are faster and even have better escapes than Reaper.

I get it, he will probably dominate the lower ranks on ladder, but against actual good players this change does nothing. At first I thought Blizz already knows that he can now roll over GOATs, but now I’m not even sure of that. Shields are bad for Reaper and I could imagine DVa gets dropped from GOATs and replace with Winston (yes, Winston) for an extra layer of shields.