The Mercy Community Problem

[Arceus-2238]

@Virticonttv-1989

No, these behaviors are not against the ToS. They are behaviors however that make people less receptive to a point of view. Your red herring is not appreciated or valid. Thanks. Have a good one.

@Virticonttv-1989

Constant topics spamming the general thread about how mercy is being ignored.*@

Against CoC.

@Virticonttv-1989

Frequent attacks against developers and Jeff, usually in accusations of neglect.

Against CoC.

@Virticonttv-1989

Attacking other communities for getting a rework before Mercy.

Against CoC.

@Virticonttv-1989

Vitriolic responses to those who disagree with the state of Mercy.

Not sure. Probably isn’t though.

@Virticonttv-1989

Attempting to be a gatekeeper of who and who can not criticize Mercy by claiming they do not have the appropriate amount of hours on Mercy to have an opinion. I have seen more often than not, if you don’t have most of your hours on Mercy, you will be disregarded.

Not against CoC but again, they do not need to addressed. Ad hominem counters itself.

@Virticonttv-1989

Using weak arguments usually claiming that Mercy is not “fun” or “impactful”.

“Weak”. Games exist for the purpose of being fun.

Also,

@Titanium-1686

Unless the hero is a balance concern, Player 2’s perception of Player 1’s character isn’t relevant. It is given that Player 2’s perception of Player 1’s character is likely negative when playing against Player 1. On the other hand, Player 1’s perception of Player 1’s character is not a given in any videogame. For the videogame to be successful, Player 1’s perception of their own character, or how it feels to play their own character, needs to be positive. If that perception is negative, players will stop playing. As a result, Player 1’s experience with Player 1’s character is infinitely more important than Player 2’s perception of Player 1’s character.

In short, a player needs to feel empowered by their own actions. The player does not need to feel empowered, and in a PvP game, should not and will not feel empowered, by the actions of their opponents.

Player 1’s experience with Player 1’s character was breached and disregarded when Blizzard tried to make Player 2’s perception of Player 1’s hero positive… which they also failed to do. By attempting to change that which neither needed to be changed nor could be changed, the balance team tampered with something that should never be altered.

In short, stuff like this doesn’t need to be addressed with a thread because we have moderators that do it for us. You making this thread was basically a waste of time because moderators exist and people already know people like this exist. It’s the internet. Also, I don’t appreciate the fact that you’re making this out to be a Mercy exclusive issue. Maybe change this thread’s title to:

The Community’s Problem.

[Virticonttv-1989]

In short, stuff like this doesn’t need to be addressed with a thread because we have moderators that do it for us. You making this thread was basically a waste of time because moderators exist and people already know people like this exist. It’s the internet. Also, I don’t appreciate the fact that you’re making this out to be a Mercy exclusive issue. Maybe change this thread title to:

The Community’s Problem.

Cute. So yeah.

This can be applied to any “Main” community. It just seems to be more relevant right now to the Mercy community. Who knows, seems like this bug may hit the sym community soon. The signs are there.

Already addressed, first thing I addressed. I already responded to you that some of the mentioned things are against the ToS. So why that list is there, is beyond me. I’ll still mention it. You are being overly hostile. You need to settle down.

[Arceus-2238]

youtuber

Are you talking about Ari? Because this:

And one last thing directed at “that youtuber” In case you come across this topic. I had some friends who responded to you in the comment section of one of your recent videos. They were respectful, but critical of the things you said in your video. And you muted them. Which is very strange, considering how concerned you seem to be about people being suspended in OW forums. (If you know about the youtuber that I am speaking of, I ask that you refrain from any sort of harassment.)

Can literally be any OW Youtuber. So really, if you’re going to direct something at someone, just say their name.

[Virticonttv-1989]

Can literally be any OW Youtuber. So really, if you’re going to direct something at someone, just say their name.

Naw, not going to name names. Not going to have something intentionally misinterpreted as Targeted harassment. It could be any youtuber. I am not going to give someone like you, who has already shown to be dishonest in how you talk to people, a reason to report.

[Hige-1101]

Don’t forget the:

“We have access to the same amount of limited data but the way I interpret it is the right one, hence anything you say is a lie and you hate mercy and me and my family and my legacy”

…

[Arceus-2238]

This can be applied to any “Main” community. It just seems to be more relevant right now to the Mercy community. Who knows, seems like this bug may hit the sym community soon. The signs are there.

Also, I don’t appreciate the fact that you’re making this out to be a Mercy exclusive issue. Maybe change this thread’s title to:

The part in bold in your quote insinuates that this is a Mercy exclusive problem which it is not. Again, just change the title. Besides, what’s the point of making the title seem Mercy exclusive but then say in the first paragraph that it isn’t a Mercy exclusive problem.

Already addressed, first thing I addressed. I already responded to you that some of the mentioned things are against the ToS. So why that list is there, is beyond me. I’ll still mention it. You are being overly hostile. You need to settle down

Literally only 2… And again, one doesn’t need to be addressed because it’s a logical fallacy.

You are being overly hostile. You need to settle down.

And you’re just being unneccessary.

Naw, not going to name names. Not going to have something intentionally misinterpreted as Targeted harassment. It could be any youtuber. I am not going to give someone like you, who has already shown to be dishonest in how you talk to people, a reason to report.

Then don’t be surprised if they don’t listen to you…

Don’t forget the:

“We have access to the same amount of limited data but the way I interpret it is the right one, hence anything you say is a lie and you hate mercy and me and my family and my legacy”

Oof. Now we’re just going to dogpile on me? Sad, really. Besides, you simplified our previous debate about data to fit your narrative. Not interested.

[Hige-1101]

well look at that, I wasn’t talking about you but you happened to be around… the thing is, the problem I described is a lot more common around here than you think and more specifically, you used actual numbers and I told you, that’s great but there are others who use the same rhetoric without any factual proof

and funny you use the term dogpile when you yourself have taken part of similar behavior more than once against several people in the forums alongside your spamming buddies

[Arceus-2238]

and funny you use the term dogpile when you yourself have taken part of similar behavior more than once against several people in the forums alongside your spamming buddies

Quote or it didn’t happen. Better yet, link the thread. Also, I don’t have “spamming buddies”.

[Virticonttv-1989]

You are a brick wall that has come in with gotcha moments and a failure to to even attempt to communicate. I am not concerned with anything else you have to say, and am not going to address you any further with a single exception.

Then don’t be surprised if they don’t listen to you…

I don’t really care if they listen or they do not. They are not the main focus of this topic. And if they come across it, they will know its them. This happened last night. It’s fresh on my mind and wanted to leave it there. But I am not going to attempt drive a crowd in their general direction, it is not my intention and i’m not going to bother trying to reach said person.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Doing something the way the dev’s want means nothing changes because they like this rework lol

I think the devs genuinely like the non-Mercy parts of the support meta changes. There’s a lot more pickrate variety.

But I also don’t think they are blind to the fact that Mercy is underperforming, and could be more fun.

Dev’s are most likely ripe for listening to change suggestions more now than ever.

But one should focus on the easy-sell change suggestions.

Instead of multi-Rezz or removing Rez.

[Hige-1101]

I honestly have better things to do than prove you wrong, although it wouldn’t take all that much of research, you pop in on every single mercy thread and we all know who also does that pretty much everyone who spams about mercy so dogpile? yes

[Arceus-2238]

You are a brick wall that has come in with gotcha moments and a failure to to even attempt to communicate. I am not concerned with anything else you have to say, and am not going to address you any further with a single exception.

Please calm down. This is just a forum.

single exception.

I can already tell that this isn’t going to last too long.

I don’t really care if they listen or they do not. They are not the main focus of this topic. And if they come across it, they will know its them. This happened last night. It’s fresh on my mind and wanted to leave it there. But I am not going to attempt drive a crowd in their general direction, it is not my intention and i’m not going to bother trying to reach said person.

Quick question. Skimming through the likes and replies in the thread, has the person you’re talking about seen this thread?

I honestly have better things to do than prove you wrong, although it wouldn’t take all that much of research, you pop in on every single mercy thread and we all know who also does that pretty much everyone who spams about mercy so dogpile? yes

I mean, for the past 2 days, I was having my fun in the LGBT threads… If it’s old stuff you’re referring to, I don’t even know why you brought it up. It’s old. Also, two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, apologies if I did dog-pile on anyone. I can assure you that that wasn’t my intentions.

know who also does that pretty much everyone who spams about mercy so dogpile? yes

I pretty much don’t know who these people are. I can assure you, I don’t have outside ties with most of the people on these forums.

[Qwazi-2242]

So, what is the purpose of this thread other than to agitate people who are already agitated? Do you expect them to somehow get an epiphany and realize how wrong they have been all the time when they have aggressively defended the hero they once (and perhaps still) love? This is just more fuel to the fire, and another one of those common problems in the community. There are many people in the Mercy community that fits the descriptions you are talking about, and there are probably an equal amount of people who go out of their way to agitate the same people in their anti-Mercy community rants. While this thread is not attacking developers or using aggressive language I would say that it’s still an extremely bad thread that contributes to worsening the situation in the forum community.

[Hauven-2768]

This to me looks like a biased thread.

You’ve forgotten at least one point where there’s a few members who deliberately derail actual Mercy feedback discussions.

Another point is the threads that are created effectively complaining about other Mercy discussion threads and classifying them, sometimes incorrectly, as spam when their own complaint thread about ‘Mercy spam’ is actually spam in itself (not relevant to Overwatch discussion but instead discussing forum policy).

Mercy is a popular hero and the fact that a year’s worth of megathread feedback went ignored, not discussed at all, didn’t help.

So, what is the purpose of this thread other than to agitate people who are already agitated?

I also fail to see what the purpose of the thread is. It appears to be a rather lengthy complaint about other Mercy discussions on the forum, therefore more discussing about forum policy and not about Overwatch. Admittedly I haven’t read the entire thing however. This thread in itself seems to be spam since it’s not relevant to Overwatch but more so about forum policy.

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

This can be applied to any “Main” community.

Then change the title? Seems rather unnecessary to say that your thread applies to everyone but then put in the title, “The Mercy Community Problem”. That’s just my opinion though.

[Virticonttv-1989]

So, what is the purpose of this thread other than to agitate people who are already agitated? Do you expect them to somehow get an epiphany and realize how wrong they have been all the time when they have aggressively defended the hero they once (and perhaps still) love? This is just more fuel to the fire, and another one of those common problems in the community. There are many people in the Mercy community that fits the descriptions you are talking about, and there are probably an equal amount of people who go out of their way to agitate the same people in their anti-Mercy community rants. While this thread is not attacking developers or using aggressive language I would say that it’s still an extremely bad thread that contributes to worsening the situation in the forum community.

The purpose is to explain to people why there are “Anti-Mercy” as you would like to put it. I mean I understand from people like you, you have no interest in dialogue. Your use of “Anti-Mercy” is a very clear indicator of that. So no, I don’t expect an epiphany from someone who uses a term for someone who disagrees with a characters balance to intentionally otherize them from the conversation. However. Yes, I am hoping that people who intend to be constructive, can look at this post and maybe take the time to reevaluate how they word things so that a discussion can be moved forward. This is an olive branch. Not a switch. I can only see those who are guilty of behaving in such a way even take this and getting offended by it.

[MrTickles-1464]

So, what is the purpose of this thread other than to agitate people who are already agitated?

I think what he is trying to do is point out that many of the actions that a certain collection of mercy mains (not all mercy mains as I refuse to generalize everyone in the same category) are counter productive to their cause.

That perhaps much of contention and persecution they feel is self perpetuated in nature.

If your goal is to convince others and allow your voice to be heard you need to be working to build bridges between you and those you view as the opposition. This has not been the case as many of their actions have been to burn them instead.

The list Virticon provides is a pretty good compilation of self sabotage and self perpetuated toxic behavior. I am not saying they are the sole cause of this toxic behavior but they are not helping matters by reacting the way they do.

[Lithy-2614]

I mean… her ult right now can potentially heal her entire team through a team fight if they are grouped, or increase the combined damage her team by 30%.

She can’t outheal even a single Winston, so her healing is not going to save her team at all. About her boost, yeah, that’s better but you’ll usually need your team having real advantage because you are leaving them at 5 vs 6 with one support down. Actually the best use of valk is chasing Pharah/Widow and that’s it.

As I said earlier, fixing mercy isn’t easy

Don’t even doubt that.

Her kit would be hard to rework

Not so hard tbh, quite the opposite. The only hard thing right now is balancing her current version because it’s simply unbalanceable.

If someone makes a topic without any real reasoning behind why they don’t find mercy fun, whats the point of making it?

I’ve seen a lot of reasoned posts about that. However, the most of the times someone try to argue against those arguments they use stereotypes or straigh lies like “you only want your character op, you brainless one-trick” or “go and play other characters”. Constructive, isn’t it? Of course, that can happen in both sides, but generalising is not good. Imagine that I started writing in the forums “every single Genji main is a toxic cry baby who rage all the time and use /ragequit when they show how unskilled they are” (yeah, this is a really toxic example, but I’ve heard worse things about the Mercy mains, anyway, this is not what I think about them, just in case, it’s just an example). I can guess that the Genji players would find that offensive, and they would be right. That’s really upsetting. Of course someone will fit that description, but that’s not the common rule, fortunately.

Summing up, unless you really want to upset someone, I’d suggest you to change the title for more generic that fits more with your supposed purpose of pointing out a common issue in the community.

Hoping for a mega thread to spawn where someone has something more useful to say?

The Mercy megathread got permanently locked because of people false flagging and trol posts being merged from time to time. It’s dead and it seems that Blizz has given up with it and they won’t create a new one. They are done with it.

Don’t forget the:

“We have access to the same amount of limited data but the way I interpret it is the right one, hence anything you say is a lie and you hate mercy and me and my family and my legacy”

That… doesn’t make sense to me… Indeed, I would say that I replied a lot of people who thought like that (just change the name “Mercy” by “Overwatch”).

Dev’s are most likely ripe for listening to change suggestions more now than ever.

Well, hope you are right about this.

But one should focus on the easy-sell change suggestions.

Instead of multi-Rezz or removing Rez.

The point is that this design is impossible to balance because it’s based on mistakes from the earliest Mercy’s past. None of them (valk, stationary rez, trash 50 hp/s healing) worked well, and they have tried everything they could for an entire year. However, nothing has worked, and finally, in order to bring the other supports to the game, they have had to kill Mercy. Complains are increasing in numbers even out of the forums (last one was Stylosa’s video where he said that she was too weak and hard to balance now).

It seems they will have to think about something sooner or later, and not exactly more simple and pointless tweaks that won’t convince anyone.

[Qwazi-2242]

This is an olive branch.

you have no interest in dialogue. Your use of “Anti-Mercy” is a very clear indicator of that

First off I said “Anti-Mercy community” - meaning people who are against the Mercy community that you are so eloquently badmouthing in your opening post. Secondly, your thread is not an olive branch, it is an eloquently worded insult towards people who are frustrated and desperate.

[Arceus-2238]

I just have an issue with his title tbh. Other than that, it’s just how unneccessary this thread is but I’ve seen lots of other threads that are way more unneccessary so I’m not too bothered by that.