The math behind stomps and why they happen

General Discussion
41

Screw influencers. Seriously. Nobody harmed game more, than bunch of elitists trying to decide for everybody else, what game should be.

2 Likes
42

I think I somewhat agree with this, due how poorly they spend on QA and testing by cutting their costs using them.

While streamers is a good way to market your game is not a good way to proper balance it. Due most folks wouldn’t play the game that way, reflecting that the majority of your playerbase wouldn’t be what these streamers would play.

43

Streamers want game to be fun to watch, but fun to play often is entirely different thing, not involving “flashy” plays.

Personally, fun plays are usually quiet and stealthy.

1 Like
44

Is a good sales pitch, to be fair.

I would rather have OW pleasing more ways to play than current overfocus on competitive scene.

Is fine to have spotlight on it, just not sabotage other experiences by doing it. Game modes should differ from each other and please different crowds, to eventually get different balance around it, by further distancing the crowd due those crowds have different goals.

Like what folks, usually, do on SC2 and did on W3.

45

I really hate how they crutch so hard on winrate stats when that’s not even a good measure by itself, even accounting for mirrored.

46

I’m simplifying because I’ve put so much time into this, that I can simplify without losing meaning.

It’s like this:

  • https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit

But probably more well appreciated like this:

  • https://i.imgur.com/HkM4TrC.jpeg
47

I think if the system has always ran since day 1, the same way it does today…

The theory of dilution should be applied

The fact that the game should go back to 6v6 or even move into the prospect of 7v7 just for the fact that they can blend in more players to offset bad team members.

48

Mei said one of those equations is wrong.

1 Like
49

Yeah if I stream you wouldn’t see me using flashy Mei combos you will see me get turned around and lost before I get into battle and mostly hang back and shoot from afar and only ice wall and freeze when enemies get close and that’s when I waddle off like a scared penguin.

50

No. You are not simplifying what you’re saying, you are simplifying what the problem is, and therefore, your ideas just wont work.

If you have put so much time into this, you should have answers to all of my points.

51

Well also, why would they even need winrate, even if it’s accurate. What good would that do?

Here, I might as well just write this down. Becaus it’s obvious to me. But because people don’t actually have telepathy, I should probably write it down.

1 Like
52

I do, and I will, I was just busy writing the stuff above this comment.

53

Okay, is that better :point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up::point_up:

Because I specifically told them to, and I’ve “guessed” almost the exact specifics of every Roadhog change (Except Pigpen). But also content creators were going ballistic about it with “Dead by Daylight meta” stuff.

They literally describe it almost exactly in their blog post.

NOTE: Wrong link, lemme go find the correct one

  • https://reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1awqlg6/overwatch_2_retail_patch_notes_february_21_2024/krjakzu/

I described why above.
But if the only real downside of bad high ELO tierlisting is “High ELO content creators will complain about it”
Then really all you gotta do, is the bare minimum for “High ELO content creators DO NOT complain about it”.
And then move from “Not complaining” to “Undeniably Happy about it”.

But otherwise, there’s not enough players in high ELO to even be that concerned about it.
Like Mathematically, the number just isn’t big enough:
Sombra death rate has ballooned to absurd levels - #69 by GreyFalcon-11737

But otherwise in terms of

I’d argue that “UnFun/UnFair Feeling Heroes, to play against get dumpstered”. And the answer to that is an enthusiastic YES. If you’re making an ecosystem, and one aspect is basically screwing everything else up, yeah, you keep cutting until it stops doing that. Then from there, you figure out how to regrow the character in a way that’s not “UnFun/UnFair Feeling”

For example:

But also for example, people in Middle/Low ELOs take GM Tierlisting, WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. Like to the point of self-induced gaslighting. I don’t know how to fix that. And I interpret it as Kotick style “Esports First Brainrot”. The point of videogames, is for them to be enjoyable. A well balanced game, that’s unenjoyable, is a bad videogame. Why is that hard for people to understand…

  • (Also, eSports is great and all, but e-Sports is basically just a Marketing expense. Rarely ever does it pull in money directly, and if it does, then it’s usually because somebody is gullible about it. But hey, Marketing is still a very good thing. A very important thing. You just should sacrifice the popularity of “Your Product” to overcompensate to accommodate the whims of marketing. Because Popularity = Sales, and Hype = Marketing. But if a business focuses too much on Marketing, and doesn’t actually pull in the Sales. Then that’s a bad business model.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFG5nDYIh0c
54

6v6 had less stomps. It still had some, but it wasn’t near this amount.

Why? because of the math behind having one additional tank. Losing a tank was not the end of a fight. It just put the team on the backfoot where the remaining tank had to play more defensively instead of trying to make a play.

Now, If a tank is lost. The fight is typically over unless the loss of their tank is immediately followed by 2-3 picks against the team who still has a tank.

This leads to fights and matches where one team rolls over the other. Fight after fight. Because losing a fight and being cleaned up afterward staggers your team, gives the enemy more ult charge, and the choice of when they want to engage you on the next fight.

Combine this with the fact that we are F2P based community now, where the skill and knowledge gaps between players can be huge, and you have a recipe for stomps.

55

That math applies to players in general, more players = less stomps.

Can you, as solo player, stomp game, where you have 10+ players from each side? Chances are, no matter how good you are, you would be overwhelmed by numbers.

Can you do same with 5 players per team? Your odds at being a stomper are improved significantly, since now you have less quantity, that can be turned into quality to stop you.

56

dont even have to do math man

fact of the matter is a LOT of things that would lead matches into becoming stomps are not things that ANY matchmaker can account for (and dont even factor until AFTER the matches start anyway)

theyre inevitable…and people are completely wasting their time thinking there is some magical fix to it

57

There is, it’s called larger teams.

Smaller teams mean more pressure on each individual player, so more strict matchmaking is required, if game is not to be a stomp in either direction.

As you pointed out, many factors matchmaking can’t account for, yet they have to be accounted for with such small teams.

You can’t remove stomps entirely, but you can make them very rare. You shouldn’t have situation, when one look at scoreboard says “you are doomed” right from the start.

58

That’s the thing. They don’t need to.

The “Perception of Balanced Matchmaking”, is more important than the “Reality of Balanced Matchmaking”.

They just need to leverage more human psychology.

59

Psychology won’t help here. They already tried it in past in attempt to fix lack of tanks.

So either they do what has to be done willingly, or “natural” shift of players forces them to do it anyway.

60

They basically did nothing about Tanks between Season 1 and Season 10.5.
And even if then, it wasn’t much in comparison to other Roles.
And then they took away the knockback part too.

Really getting more Tanks is easy:

And it’s so obvious, I could have told you that 5 years ago.

So nah, it ain’t like that.

https://i.imgur.com/lk9DDqb.png