The "hiding mercy" fallacy


#205

Because having a full team in one place at full health is more efficient than them straggling in to an outnumbered situation. It is easy to make the decision that a war of attrition is over, cut off the heals, then heal everyone to full at once through a mass res, and clobber.

It’s funny how so many people deny not only the utility but the superiority of such a tactic. It is foolish NOT to use it, and that makes it bad game design to have healers letting teams die for the one shot heal to full


#206

There’s a difference between waiting for enemies to reach a location so that you can kill them all and hiding as the main healer, not healing anybody on your team and just letting them die, just so you can resurrect them.

When a Mercy player was hiding so they could resurrect their team, they weren’t healing anybody. If they hadn’t hidden, they could have saved a lot of their teammates, if not all of them.

Resurrect was an unengaging ability that couldn’t be stopped due to Mercy’s invulnerability when using it. Every other Ultimate in the game can be stopped in one way or another, but Mercy’s Resurrect couldn’t.

Killing the enemy team and seeing them all resurrected was never fun. Resurrecting your entire team and seeing them all die again wasn’t fun either. It was a horrible Ultimate.


#207

You might not have used it, but I can tell you I think the Mercy main on my team used it more times than I have bones in my body.

It was incredibly common and effective in my games.

This whole “croucing healer, hidden Mercy fallacy” craze feels like the flat earthers of the Overwatch community if you ask me. There’s a reason it’s a hot topic, and it’s not because it wasn’t used.


#208

Because she was brokenly OP, to the point where they simply had to do something to fix the mess they made of the ladder? And, as is typical of Blizzard, they often tend to buff a character’s competition, at the same time they give them the “nerf that broke the camel’s back”, so to say. Just look at Ana way back when. Mercy, Ana’s only competition, got buffed when Ana got nerfed into obscurity.


#209

It actually couldn’t be interrupted. They got rid of any sort of cast time back in beta due to player feedback.


#210

They never explicitly said so, and the inference they did, is fishy, at best.
All Jeff said, was, “We’d like to put the notion that Mercy will be reverted to rest.” nothing less, nothing more. Given the fact that rework suggestions, like Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy’s Current State are not reverts, pretty much everything’s on the table.


#211

It’s the reason for hiding that matters. A dps might hide to suprise the enemy. Mercy hides while she could otherwise be healing the team to prevent the deaths.


#212

Laying something to rest means its dead, in a grave.


#213

Ignorance is not an argument. That would be like saying we’ve never seen aliens so we know that they exist. Also, you made the assertion first. You have to provide evidence first. Halo doesn’t need to provide any proof to disprove your claim if you don’t have proof for your claim.


#214

Appealing to ignorance is a logical fallacy.


#215

Explain Valkyrie.


#216

I think people need to realize that no matter how much people argue about this, you’re not going to sway the other person’s opinion. These threads are literally echo chambers of two different opinions over and over again.


#217

Still don’t know why people act like Mercy’s mass resurrection had no other counter besides killing the mercy.

Counterplay against the ultimate to negate the benefits of using said ultimate is still proper counterplay. Just like transcending after earthshatter has caught most of your team is still counterplay to earthshatter even if your team is stunned and they succesfully performed their earthshatter ultimate.

Aka, there exists tons of counterplay to mass resurrection that can easily completely negate the ultimate, such as dva bomb, riptire, minefield, earthshatter, deathblossom, barrage, graviton surge, new torb ulti and the best of them all, High noon that locks onto resurrecting targets for instakill. And the more clumped up the enemy team is after a ress, aka “die on point I have ress”, the easier it is to counterplay it and this is why hide and ress was a bad tactic if the opposing team had brain capacity to not toss every single enemy ultimate into the fray and save one to counter one enemy support ulti. Dva bomb is extremely simple to just press Q on point when you see glowing targets around you and watch as you get potg from a 6man nuke.

Nowdays tho people toss around ultimates willy nilly, so ulti management is not apparently a thing people actually learn, so naturally something to counter ultimate management would be seen as broken and OP. Everyone wants their taste of potg so they will be tossing everything they can into the graviton surge lol.

Sure, mass ressing 5 people only gave bunch of SR during the time if it worked, but the SR exploiting that people were gunning for was long since fixed. Tempo resses were just infinitely better than the glorified 5man resses that practically never happened anyway. Not to mention the people who did this hide and seek and climbed high with the SR exploit, their winrates were horredously bad because THE TACTIC DIDN’T ACTUALLY WORK. There are videos of this too.

Mercy’s winrate did not rise to sky high because people found out a great tactic of abusing ress no, the opposite happened because it was proven to be a horrid tactic.


#221

DPS mains: mErCy mAiNs aRe bRaIn dEaD

Also DPS mains: sorry i can’t play mercy


#222

Scapegoating DPS mains isn’t going to help your cause. I recommend avoiding that


#223

Right a very simple fix would’ve been to give her 75% damage reduction, something that makes her killable but without making it impossible.


#224

Mass rez with invulnerability did not have any counter play if she get it off is how you should have worded it. Stuns and killing her counters but after that she is just free to rez 4 people and go back into cover.


#225

It did have counterplay. People are bent on what the definition of a counter is.

A counter is something that negates the impacts of an ultimate. A counter doesn’t have to be something that can negate the ultimate before it starts.


#226

Every other ultimate can be canceled/countered/negated besides Mass resurrection.

Mercy can hide all she wants I mean even Ana actually have to play around corners so she doesn’t get 1 clipped by Tracer while she is quick-scoping.

The problem is Mass resurrect was instantly and always secured X players revived no matter what.

Reaper/Mcree ults doesn’t delete the enemy team every time they press Q in fact those ultimate’s that work better if you hide behind the enemy team barely can kill 1 or 2 players (with luck).


#227

I see this argument made a lot, but it doesn’t hold up. The difference between Mercy and, say, Reaper hiding to use an ult is about making decisions based on game sense.

Mercy’s mass rez could ONLY be used when people on her team were dead (reactively). The argument against her hiding is that she might not have had to use it at all if she’d been in the fight keeping her team alive instead of hiding. There’s little to no decision making for mass rez. Are people dead? Yes. Will using rez on them turn the fight around? And that’s the end of the decision tree.

When Reaper hides, it’s for positioning. He can use his ult proactively or reactively. He can hide to dismantle an enemy push before it begins, to turn the tide during an already-going team fight, or however else he wants. For him, it’s about surprise. For Mercy, it’s about just trying not to die, though she has to let others die in the process to get any value out of her ult.