Not to mention even if they came out and showed word for word how everything works they’d either just be twisted again to fit a narrative or they’ll just have “LIAR!” Shouted at them if there’s no way the tin foil hat crowd can use it. Doesn’t matter really, any statements or evidence presented to them just get twisted to what they can or ignored if they can’t.
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keep thinking…you are out to lunch bro
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tin foil hats are popular these days
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Then show? Transparency is your best defense. Hiding and obfuscating the inner workings breeds tinfoil hats. You show and let objective third parties review and validate the supposed “fairness”.
The only twisted narrative here is calling rigging “fairness”. One doesn’t force the contest outcome towards 50/50 and call it “fair”. That’s anti-competitive, and flies in the face of esports integrity and branding as a fair and true competition.
And at the end of the day, who is this about? A community of players, customers, clients, end-users? The unethical direction the AAA industry is taking? Is one going to defend some corporation trying to hide their shady bussiness practices? The ethics are quite clear - and everyone using “the platform” stands to benefit from transparency and accountability. Anything less is putting the customer under the bus for the sake of profit.
It’s David & Co. vs. Goliath. Are you really going to side with Goliath?
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Thank you for writing this. Explains a lot and very insightful.
Defense against what? There’s no evidence. If it was a court case it would of been thrown out.
Making teams equal so the odds of winning is 50/50 or as close as is a basic of SBMM and is considered fair. Yes, it would be twisted if rigging exists but you’d need to prove that first.
Anticonsumer stuff. Releasing source code because of a baseless/slanderous claim could damage the product the consumer paid for as it open’s it up for theft by other companies.
In this case, I’d side with Goliath because David is picking a fight with someone based on pure speculation. Like he’s evil because he’s tall.
If you want a solid defense look at this one…
So here you’re saying not only you experience no rigging but if you wanted to be @700sr you’d have to play better other 700sr players.
You’re legit saying you’re having a fair and competitive experience. This means your entire opinion is either 2nd hand or based on flawed evidence like the patents.
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they are all same. ggez
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And I, for one, would be perfectly ok with that. I’d rather be stomped and know it was a random factor, then constantly suspect that the matchmaker is constantly giving me unbalanced teammates / opponents which makes winning into a simple coin flip.
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It doesn’t exist by design, but it does exist as an outcome of the silly ELO method behind it all which doesn’t take into proper account how players act. It’s been put forward several times that the original issue is trying to use an ELO system for a game which doesn’t really warrant it. Thus, the system is being revised and overhauled for OW 2. It will likely have most of the same problems, but it might see improvements. They know it has issues, they just are too focused on OW 2 to frankly give a damn about fixing the problems in the game now.
Flagged for spam. If you want to reply to a thread, reply in the thread.
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Ok, let’s clear something up. Saying a contest is ‘rigged’ is NOT claiming the outcome is fixed. You are using a different definition of rigged than others here on the forum.
No one here is saying the outcomes of games are fixed due to the MatchMaker™. What they are saying is compositions of teams are manipulated to handicap each team in order to attempt to make the probability of a win by either team to be 50%. It is this team composition activity which is where the term ‘rigging’ is coming into the conversation.
Why don’t we just say the MMR is handicapping matches? There is no debate about that.
Is there a problem with handicapping in general? Not always; in bowling leagues they give individual bowlers handicaps so the teams are more evenly matched? Why do they do this? It is so it low skill players can have a chance against high skill players. Bowling leagues are also not ‘competitive’ in the sense of pro-bowling. Bowling leagues that use handicapping are recreational and everyone is clear on how the handicap values are calculated and awarded; not to mention that team compositions are already set and not affected by matchmaking, in fact matches are more likely to be round-robin so all teams have a chance to play each other.
The combination of individual skill ratings AND having the MatchMaker compose the teams is where the problem really comes to the forefront.
How could you have a professional league where the teams are formed and matches assigned like this?
If the MatchMaker is ‘fair’ why isn’t it used in the OverWatch League?
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they are pro players, the skills, mechanics, and team play are constantly being worked on, and basic plays for them could be considered hard carry in any rank below them, which is why they get paid to do that.
also the teams arent randomly picked…they are pre-assigned
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If they aren’t using the word right without defining it, it is wrong. If it’s meaningless slang without definition then it actually makes there point weaker.
MMR handicapping. Sure but nothing outside of normal SBMM.
If there was SBMM in bowling you’d face players of increasing skill to handicap you until you lose instead and not only would it have the same recreational effect it’s competive and fair.
OWL question is a bad question. Basically, it because it would be unwatchable/followable. Teams and leagues are better for that. You can compete and set up discord tourneys if you want to play like in OWL.
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Thank you for making this important post. I agree completely, this post needs to be given the attention it deserves so the truth can be known. Very well written.
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You aren’t defining it either. Please give us a dictionary definition that you agree with so we have a way to improve communication.
Cambridge dictionary
rig
verb [ T ]
UK /rɪɡ/ US /rɪɡ/
-gg-
rig verb [T] (DISHONESTLY ARRANGE)
to arrange dishonestly for the result of something, for example, an election, to be changed
Also Oxford, Wikipedia, Googles etc define it the same way as it’s a 18th centenary word.
I would like to correct one thing tho, you said
Who’s we? You mean you right? As using the word as defined in the English language is basic writing and communication skills.
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It sounds like you agree that Blizzard is handicapping matches by manipulating the team composition to get the result they want, but it isn’t rigging because they are honest about it?
I meant we as in you and I. /20 characters
It is explained in the OP.
If you consider SBMM, handicapping matches by manipulating the team composition then all matchmaking systems do that. You can word it however you want but if you want to consider the basics of matchmaking evil or wrong then you in a situation there is no solution.
The intent of SBMM is to create a 50/50 chance for both teams which is the furthest thing from rigging and fixing a result.
My point is basically, all the things that are implied like
There is no evidence for this and saying the basics of SBMM do this isn’t evidence it’s just someone saying they don’t like SBMM. There is actually evidence proving these claims are wrong.
As for the You and I think ok sure. You mistyped the sentence, no worries because you said to “please give us” and I wouldn’t need to give myself a definition.
I will also make it clear I’m not trying to prove without a doubt Overwatch doesn’t rig matches, all I’m saying the argument presented is flawed, baseless, and one-sided.
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Don’t we already know from the inception of Competitive Play that there is a rating system other than SR under the hood, which the players have no access to? It’s a simple transparency issue.
If you know there’s an apple in a box but you cannot see it, how can you know for sure if it’s fresh or rotten?
MMR or SR should be one simple number. You win a game, you gain points. You lose a game, you lose points. From my understanding, there’s literally no reason to have more than one type of rating in a competitive game, especially not the one you cannot see.
Saying the game is rigged or not rigged, doesn’t change the fact that we are blind. We can talk all we want. In fact, we’ve been talking about it for 4 years or more, and we’re still blind.
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