I don’t remember you inting homie, it was a good game, well played! =]
It wasn’t clear who was being called out, for what and why, which thread (and writer) they were refering to, etc. And the entire post still looks like a character attack. Try again.
MMR rigging isn’t some random opinion, it’s provably sourced by developer commentary. Rigged matchmaking isn’t some random opinion, it’s an algorithmic process protected as intellectual property, licensed for active-use in products like OW. The semantics of rigging and handicapping aren’t opinion, they’re word-for-word compliant with definitions outlined by all major online dictionaries.
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Even if it does exist, then explain to me why the people ranking up are most of the time people who actually put the time in to learn and improve their play instead of blaming others and random factors for being hardstruck?
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Because that has nothing to do with hidden performance calculations (MMR), and rigging a “fair” match towards 50/50 outcom expectation.
Rigging and handicapping doesn’t stop your mobility or progression, it taxes it. The MM artificially contrives matches (rigging the contest), instead of naturally and naively shipping players into a match around the scoring function, ranked payout, and ladder system itself (SR).
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Receipts has never proven it or sourced any real evidence. Simple as. He’s made sock accounts, lied and insulted people but never proven it.
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Except we have, time and time again - the dev commentary, the patents count as evidence towards a belief (probabilistic proof). What evidence have you got that shows non-rigging?
Recall:
There are several official sources provided for those claims, see the referenced post(s).
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You know if they randomly queued people together you would get WAY more stomps, since you leave everything up to RNG, as in 1 team could get the best players, while the others have the average/bad players.
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Absolutely. And that would be true, unadulterated, unrigged, non-discriminatory, raw competitive fairness and integrity at play. You rise/fall against the backdrop, which averages out for some SR band. You ship only around the scoring metric (narrow SR band), putting people that convert wins with/against people that convert wins.
Rigging for non-stomps and adapting matches to hidden performance is anti-competitive.
Do casuals need rigging to smooth things out for them? Probably, yes. But rigging most certainly takes away from unadulterated competition. You can make a case for it in casual modes, but I don’t think it has a place in comp when you’re calling the comp system path2pro esports.
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S* you got me.
I have nothing else to defend my point.
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For games like Apex Legends where you queue 60 players into a Competitive Match, it makes sense to randomly queue people without looking at their statistics, since you get points based on how well you do in the match (kills, assists and placement). This way good players will be at the top of the lobby and gain most points, while bad/average players will get little to no points depending on how they perform.
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In games like CoD people absolutely despise the SBMM (which is basically a repackaged MMR) and they’re already looking at SBMM2.0, which will use even more analytics and rig/adapt matches even more tighter for the sake of engagement and retention and supposed “fairness”.
I’m sorry but competition isn’t meant to be fair via rigging, it’s meant to be fair by NOT rigging.
The rigging topic comes up all the time (not just on these forums), because we’re at an ethical turning point in AAA and gaming industry. Where companies want to move forward on analytical tools and techniques that tailor the gameplay experience. It ends up being psychological manipulation for the sake of profit. This might otherwise be fine/allowable for entertainment reasons, but not for esports/competition.
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Wait you all know about the last gunslingers too? They were the most respected clan on TF2.
Over 2000 games played but they never won a game. Gotta respect that determination.
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The last gunslingers were not the greatest TF2 guild of all time.
Therefore, the game isn’t rigged.
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You know while you cant prove it due to lack of transparency, neither could you ever disprove it for the same reason. The main issue is that Blizzard even tried introducing mmr and all that mess because good intentions or not you’re only introducing system which can only bring errors into a system an otherwise stable and simple way to do it.
Everyone starts at 0, win +1, lose -1, pair within general range. Basically they could have just uses the SR and it would have resulted in more a more stable and accurate ranking system because its pretty much how nature does it. the MMR and all that hidden mess unless guaranteed to be perfect from the beginning is only ever going to be susceptible to abuse or error
Oh course transparency would simply solve all problems in this regard.
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Better yet why don’t the devs make a clear statement concerning this issue?
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Alone the system that you have a SR which reprents your “skill rating” and an MMR which places you in matches is wrong.
When you lose a match and lose SR but your MMR increases because you played well which creates a gap between these values, no matter how small it is, the matchmaking is rigged and does not represent your real “Skill-Rating”.
Pairing this which a (enforced) 50:50 winchance for both teams, which is defined by the MMR from the matchmaker and not your SR, you end up with harder enemies even when you are stuck at a certain SR.
Why is there even a discussion about that? These are all confirmed facts by the devs and everyone with a bit logical thinking knows it.
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This is a good question.
Trying to disprove something that doesn’t exist is near impossible. It’s the Flying Spaghetti Monster argument.
Dev’s have made statements that it’s a skill-based matchmaking system, they don’t need to reply to every accusation especially when its evidence is things taken out of context and pure opinion.
This is speculation and hasn’t been proven by devs outside of MMR exists.
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Hey now, I’m low ranked, don’t lump me in this those guys lol.
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Depends what you mean, to a degree something already is happening beyond required by a rank system with the MMR thing which cannot guarantee it properly gauging all relevant value that cannot be measured in statistics alone.
That’s as far as I can know. Any further suspicions are simply based on other Ranking system’s I’ve played. I did a comparison of overwatch with the Halo 2 matchmaking system as a reply to post a while back and I
I calculated what SR would be in terms of halo ranks and vice versa because I felt that Halo 2 had a great ranking system. Inthe Halo equivalent of SR rank, you would find yourself fluctuating an equivalent of ±/- 100 SR while im OverWatch I get ranges of about +/-250 SR fluctuations. OverWatch is a lot more volatile than Halo 2. In Halo 2 you would reach your peak and then you would stay around your peak and any progress you would make would be slow and incremental which to me felt right, compared to OverWatch which I find my rank fluctuating 500 SR only to have to climb it back up again maybe make a little progress before it fluctuates wildly again making it feel like a grind. The length of the streaks I’ve found myself having whether they were wins and losses were also new behavior which was ridiculous when I was newer to the game getting things like 11 wins and then 11 losses and 9 wins and 9 losses and 13 wins and 13 losses almost in exact mirrors. It happened for quite a while but it seems to have stopped happening so wildly now but I found that highly suspicious.
That’s the questionable thing I find about it a ranking system isn’t hard to design It literally can go by wins and losses and group similar levels and that’s it, That’s precisely the system Halo 2 used. I don’t know many other ways to do accurate rankings. So I would assume that OverWatch would use the same ranking system methodology that Halo 2 used. However the matchmaker and ranking system have widely different behavior, This shouldn’t be the case unless they’re using something different, And I can’t think of a different way to do it that wouldn’t be introducing errors or would be all that appealing. So I can’t confirm my suspicion but this behavior seems to go against logic which is another thing that’s hard to ignore
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If you don’t complain and look for improvement, then you are all good homie =]
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