I have no preference inherently. It just has to match her kit. I think with 50 hps, Rez is fine. She more utility. 60 should mean she’s a main healer and not have Rez imo. It’s not Rez, its her overall design.
Yes. I don’t like how she’s a mobile healer who slows to use her ability.
For Mercy. I think a healing ult for her requires management.
Irrelevant. So is zen and ana. It’s how it’s used and it’s nature to the hero. Nano being quick and short on Ana’s part makes sense to me. Mercy is about consistency so you can give her Rez or a long channel. Either is fine. But if it’s long, she shouldn’t lose her emphasis of decision making.
Not at all. Burst is not her design.
While in valk as is now? Not inherently. Big main little chain could be instead of 50-50-50-50-50, it’s 130- 30-30-30-30.
It’s not the amount of healing that matters but how it’s done.
I don’t have any inherent desire for 'more healing
Your suggestions make her better_ imo. But my goal is to have her fixed. Like all heroes. They should be balanced but also coherent and committed in design. Zen is a hero I think is very balanced but also coherent. Brigs latest changes make her balanced but not committed in design. And mercy imo is mostly balanced but not coherent or committed in design.
So I think, N7, based on this that both pieces of this rework have some limited but finite value for you, but at the same time you’re thinking that this limited value change will prevent or substantially delay the fix you want…is that the essence of it?
I have no inherent love or hate for it. I think an inherent big main little chain requires less effort in change to keep her going towards good design, while working on a good solid change for her overall.
I mean, I’m not really in charge. I’m more of a … “Don’t put it out if it’s not done” person. Ptr would be my best friend. I’d never have let valk been so strong on release. And the thing is, I understand their thoughts as like… A basic player. “Rez is Mercy’s best part of her kit. If it’s not at once, it’s a nerf!” I know many people who never understood the power tempo rez was and hate valk because mass Rez was just stronger… It wasn’t. But I see the misconstrued logic…coming from a pleb. Not someone who looks at the game from a literal development perspective. And if you’re not sure, beta test! It’s a continuous game?
Ana was too weak on release
Sombra was abysmal.
Mercy was a monster
Symm and torb are perma trash
Like, I hate wasting time. Balance is one thing. Design is totally different. Tweaking soldier was great! Shifts for Lucio was great! All these others are exhausting.
If they did these changes and kept her forever and never even…buffed or tweaked… It’s better.
Not good.
I can certainly see the possibility of raising the number needed to charge Valk just a bit, although since the total potential healing is actually lower in this rework, that may not be necessary at all
Im not familiar with Smite or LoL but there have been suggestions around that have a similar concept. Zilean’s ult is basically like a preemptive rez, you cast on to them, and if they die within a certain time, they get rezzed, if they dont, nothing happens.
In my opinion, all of the many folks who like Mercy as she is in her current state want chains to stay - I am most certainly included in that group
While the math is easy to see that the maximum total potential healing is lower with bigmainlittlechains, I firmly believe that the maximum potential rarely if ever hit…I mean, you’d have to have all 5 teammates needing 60 or more HPs at the same time.
I believe that a good Mercy player getting the main beam on the player who needs it most will get more real/actual production from a 80/40 (or 90/30) arrangement than a 60/60 - and if one accepts that, while it is a nerf to potential, it is a buff to real/actual in-match healing Of course, there’s no way to prove that, shy of it being implemented internally at Blizzard for testing
agreed.
a chain (at 60, at 40, whatever) can sustain a teammate, possibly even preventign death if the teammate makes good use of cover and/or personal healing or defensive abilities
As I said above, I dont really see this as a nerf…
I don’t think its a case of “always”. I personally prefer Mercy as she is, so I prefer rez. That said, if I feel that I can prevent an almost certain death with the alternative use-on-living-target burst, I’d do it, as having my teammate live is preferable to having them die and then (maybe) rezzing them afterwords. A judgement call would have to be made, and that once again brings out the “good Mercy benefits more” concept, which I think is of immeasurable value here.
I am not in favor of separate cooldowns for several reasons, starting but not ending with the added coding complexity. A long cooldown also means the burst can be a bit stronger of an effect that it would be on a shorter cooldown, and I believe most folks are looking for a fairly strong effect
Thank you for the love, AngeloMS - and to all the others who have marked the OP as liked and yet I failed to thank individually.
I’d like to invite everyone and anyone to add their comments, questions, and concerns while I formulate the v2 of this rework, which probably will mostly focus on altering the “use-on-living-target” aspect of this rework
Interesting! Personally I don’t care much about the chains but I do see their current value as stated, I’d like them to remove them and make the single healing beam stronger but not by much, 80 would be pretty crazy in my opinion, that’s why I would prefer only 70 or 75
Neither do I tbh, I was referring to those who think that 50 hps is nothing, if they think 50 is whatever, imagine how they’d feel with 40 lol
Here is where I disagree and I’ll explain why but bear with me for a bit. Imagine that Ana had only one skill button, as you press it down you get prompted your options, you can choose between nade or sleep dart, now also imagine that this skill has a 30 seconds cooldown
how would you feel if you choose one and the immediate result required the use of the other one?
my guess is that it would be particularly frustrating, more so than regular
Moira is a character that has this issue but blizz bypassed the problem by giving the orb a lowish cooldown and made its utility available to be replicated with the rest of her kit
Now for Mercy you’d enter on a long cooldown and your utility would be locked until then, yes it would require quite a bit of prediction and strategy to use the right one but giving that the punishment for missusing it is greater than the reward of using it correctly, I think it would turn up to be a frustrating skill to use no matter the case, a good rez will prevent you to burst heal and viceversa
Remember that currently you can only get like 8 rezzes max per game, a skill like invigorate would lower that number quite a bit, so much so that I could bet people would have games with no intentional rezzes, the value of keeping someone alive is far greater than the value of channeling amidst a teamfight
I really love the idea of Invigorate because sometimes you can’t even use your E ability right now. (at no fault of your own)
I appreciate that these ideas add depth and decision making to her gameplay (Without making her that much “stronger” and without making her outshine other healers) which is exactly what I think she’s lacking.
Making her fun to play without making her unfun to play against- I like it.
I also think Change #1 makes her fill the offheal slot a bit better, without replacing the value of Lucio/Zen ultimates.
I have toyed with the idea of going 90/30 and other such numbers, but I wanted the healing to the folks not on the main beam to remain consequential. 30 is about as low as I think I’d want to go, personally, but 90/30 isnt out of the question.
I hope for more feedback on this from other players who are receptive to the BigMainLittleChains concept
Keep in mind that this rework is keyed on compromise - it doesnt try to address every issue every Mercy player has with the character - it doesnt address the mass rez complaint at all, for example
The intent of the dodo rework is to keep existing happy players happy, while bringing over a some (not all) of the currently unhappy Mercy players into the happy (or at least “less unhappy”) fold
I personally dont think a heal ever beats a rez either, but not everyone agrees on this…and there are many players who want an ability - any ability - that doesnt slow them down to use it.
For those of us who prefer rez as it is, it’ll still be available as the “use on dead target” option
Yes - anything not specifically changed remains exactly the same
I dont want to overly complicate things with multiple cooldowns - I want a simple choice: heal or rez. The longer cooldown also helps ensure that the burst effect can be very potent, whereas if the cooldown was shorter it’d have to be weaker. A bigger burst will help Mercy be more useful to tanks, as well, and that will help alleviate yet another source of irritation for some players
There aren’t many in the anti-mercy faction with whom I can potentially have a reasonable conversation. You’re on that list, though, so I worry.
So the question becomes - do you think there will come a time when ‘better’ will become an acceptable (even grudgingly) option rather than continually waiting for a “perfect fix” that may never come?
Dodo told me to come here to discuss about the rework, and here I am.
So, let’s see… I’m not entirely a fan of keeping the beams because it doesn’t really change Mercy’s gameplay that much, so as an ult, it just feels lackluster to me.
Invigorate might be promising, but having it be an entirely different ability with different cast times depending on if the ally is alive or dead sounds… weird, and I can already see people complaining because two targets were one next to the other and accidentally they started casting the resurrection.
If you ask me, I’d either move insta-cast single target rezz to the ult, or remove resurrection entirely.
And as an ability, I’d let her throw something, like… I don’t know, an item that once you throw it it builds some sort of healing spring bot that grants health regen to allies inside.
Or a health pack.
Or a healing grenade that acts somewhat like Junkrat’s grenades. You throw it, it explodes on hit. It hit the wall/floor? Minor AOE burst heal. It hit an ally? Huge healing burst to that target + minor AOE burst heal.
Kind of like S4 League’s rescue gun, but without the grenade laying on the floor if it misses.
Those 5 complaints are among the most frequently stated complaints about Mercy in her current state - though not necessarily THE top 5 (I think mass rez returning is number 1). Those making those complaints do still seem to want to play Mercy – albeit with changes.
So yes - anyone who wants burst healing (for example) could select Ana instead, but for some reason, those with these issues still want those things for Mercy
Thats what this compromise position rework is for, essentially…
I think that will have the same issues more or less that mass rez had, ie the whole “you can go kill yourself now” effect
One of the 5 common complaints I am attempting to address is the lack of burst heal with Mercy. I dont think she needs one, personally, but it does get a lot of complaints regardless. I sorta kinda see rez as sorta kinda a burst heal, given that you bring a teammate from 0 HP to full HP as a part of the process, so it seemed fitting to have “rez on living” act as a burst heal
one of the 5 complaints thus rework attempts to address is players who want rez gone. For them, they can always choose burst heal, and in effect remove rez from their gameplay
Some players might see a pre-emptive rez as having limited or no value, given that the player might never die during the duration of the effect. With current rez, you have a finite value - on success, you get a full health player back. A pre-emptive rez only gets you value if the player dies, and if they dont, you get no value