Much appreciated
…but…
why are you addressing the 5 “ways one might be unhappy with Mercy that are addressed by the dodo rework” rather than the changes themselves?
Overall I actually really like these changes.
I do have a question about Invigorate though. When used on a living target, would it still have its current cast time?
Understood - I was going more for making folks “less unhappy” than “happy” if that makes sense, so I see this as at least a partial success with you, which is especially good since you and I tend to not see eye to eye on most things
Higher numbers would indeed be more impactful, but a very large but understated part of what is intended here is that players that already like/enjoy how Mercy works now (and this of course includes me) shouldnt see a lot of difference in how they play her now after the change. With this in mind, the chains had to stay, and the chains still had to provide consequential healing. I considered going as far as 90/30 as the extreme, but pulled it back to 80/40 for this proposal. For me, the success of this change would largely (but not solely) hinge on the same folks who like her as she is still liking her after the change
I get that, but…for Moira, she isnt usually hitting multiple targets simultaneously with the yellow spray, and it runs out, and for Ana, she’s only hitting one target at a time and even that is questionable because its much more likely that one misses with that healing than with the beam (main or chain) from Mercy’s staff.
I get that, but the 80 will help delay death more than 60 will, and in that extra second or two of time, the beleaguered teammate has a bit more time self heal, get to a healing pack, behind a shield, or into cover…or even kill the enemy that is beleaguering him
I dont see Valkyrie’s healing as defending (or even intending to defend) against enemy attack ultimates - even the 120 you suggest wouldnt save a teammate from DVa bomb, RipTire and the like. It is more about sustaining, and it is intended in this set of changes that it remain that way - again, a lot of us like a longer sustaining ultimate
Does this mean you are ok with the 35main/25 chain change?
If more frequently available, it’d have to imo be weaker by far, and the weaker this power is set, the less reason one has to give up the 50HPs/s one is already getting without using a cooldown ability.
As such, I believe it’d be better to get a “bigger bang” less frequently, tho YMMV.
I see Mercy as better in some scenarios (sniper-heavy teams, vertical teams, high mobility teams, vertical maps, etc) even without any changes, and certainly better than Ana specifically if the player playing support has poor aim. Mind you, I do like both of these two other characters, but I think Mercy has some applications they cant fill as well.
Much appreciated…
I didn’t realize how long the post was when I was replying and I actually didn’t have much to add on the changes themselves
BigMainLittleChains is an interesting idea, for sure, but I didn’t really have anything to add. I would like to test it out though
Invigorate is also interesting. I actually haven’t seen any suggestions like this. I think it’s a cool idea, but, again, I don’t have much to add. I would want to play-test it.
I would rather, of course, remove resurrection entirely.
I did have something to add to your QoL changes, though, so that’s why I “targeted” that in my post.
So, in short, I didn’t see the need to address them because I didn’t have much to add other than “I’d like to test this”
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i agree
that looks promising
that’s not bad but i’m not crazy about it… i like it because it’s flexible and gives her burst healing and i don’t like it because the people you wanna burst heal are sometimes flankers and you usually don’t have LoS on them
I have a little idea of my own
what if her E ability was
“Life well”:
“sleep an enemy hero for 3 secs, restore them to full health and give them immunity while they are sleeping, heal every friendly hero for the amount of health that was restored to that enemy hero, after the 3 secs that enemy can choose to wake up and lose immunity or stay asleep if they choose to stay asleep for every extra second that they are sleeping they heal all of their teammates for 20 hp/sec up to 5 extra secs”
by Option 2, to do you mean using Invigorate (or whatever it would be called) on a live teammate?
If that is the case, think of Doomfists meteor strike. The most damage is done at the center of the effect, and the further away one is from the center of impact the less damage one takes.
This is the same, with healing instead of damage, albeit with the potential to have a short duration rather than the instantaneous effect that meteor strike has
I think a lot of folks might like this option specifically because their movement isnt slowed…lots of folks on the forums complain regularly about how her “flow” is interrupted by the slower movement during rez; and/or how a “highly mobile” character should always remain highly mobile.
Nope
Yep.
Yep.
Nope. I’m not fond of giving Mercy burst or AoE, because that’s supposedly Ana and Moira’s way of doing things. I would rather keep their kits as different as possible.
That’s a complex one. Assuming no changes whatsoever to current Mercy, then no.
So I’m in the camp of those who agree with 2 and 3, perhaps 5 depending on premisse.
I like that, a step in the right direction and I would certainly welcome it. However I must say, removing chain beams altogether would be my choice.
The devs won’t rework Mercy without rez in her kit. She has sprays and a highlight intro for it, it’s iconic and altogether would make way too many people upset in the process.
I get you on this. It can feel really boring to use sometimes. But I typically highly dislike just going up in the air and healing from a safe spot during Valkyrie. I zip around and take advantage of my 15s of 60hps and actually stay lower to the ground and fly in and out of cover. Feels a lot more engaging than just sitting in what many consider a spectator mode.
I can also get you on this, but Mercy’s supposed to be a single target healer and I really love that about her. Beam juggling is one of the most fun things about her, aside from GA. But that’s just my opinion and I would honestly be ok if she got a burst heal, but I feel it’s unlikely.
I would love for Mercy to have a higher healing rate in Valkyrie with single target beam only. It would make it feel a lot more rewarding. Chain healing goes against her identity, but it does have its uses and encourages your team to stay together, so I’ve come to not mind it as much.
Ngl, this is what I thought Valkyrie did when I first started playing Overwatch so I still beam juggled in Valkyrie. I really like this idea.
This is why communication is key. If I need to get up to our Widow, or even our Ashe or McCree, I say “Hey, x, can you come to the edge please?”. There’s also GA prefers beam target, which I believe if done correctly with it on you can curve around the ledge and get up there. Don’t quote me on that though because I don’t use that setting lol.
Overall, this is a good thread! I can tell you really thought it out. But imo I think Mercy just needs a couple very small buffs and QoL changes. A rework would be nice, but they need to be careful about how they go about it. I think a good rework would be to move rez back to her ultimate, make it charge a bit quicker and make it single target like current rez. No cast time (or maybe a 0.5s cast time if absolutely needed) and no movement penalty. Sort of like Tracer and her pulse bomb work. ^^
(also, sorry for this being so long. I tend to write more than I should :'0)
I agree with that complain very much and I think it’s easier to fix than we might think. Just take current Res, increase the range at which Res can finish its animation (not started) then remove the movement penalty and ability lock altogether. Let the player GA-cancel out of the Res and move freely around the “soul” while the animation plays.
Simple WASD control would mean A LOT to Mercy’s gameplay.
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DesiresCry:
the 5 points that you are replying to are not my stances.
instead - those 5 points are some (not all) of the most common complaints I hear about Mercy, and those 5 complaints are in turn what the Dodo Mercy rework is intended to address
With apologies, this seems to be a bit of an exaggeration.
As I said earlier, I dont want the play of this character to change much if these changes are implemented for those who already enjoy playing her in her current state
As such, I am not in favor of changing the length of the beam or the chains
That said - may I ask what you felt about this rework suggestion as a whole?
Does it for example resolve any of your concerns, and if so, which ones?
For another, would you prefer to play the existing version of Mercy or this one?
Big main little chains was a step in the right direction, invigorate is eh.
Hmm, ok, is it then fair to say you dont want burst healing and/or you dont feel the speed reduction when using the current version of rez is a problem?
(Sorry, there are a lot of folks who want different things from Mercy and I struggle to keep track…)
Tho your feedback is appreciated, I am not sure I understand it
The Dodo Mercy Rework DOES remove the slowdown effect…IF…you target a living being rather than a dead one
It retains the slowdown ONLY if one uses it on a dead target, ie same as current rez, which (though renamed) remains exactly the same for players who already like playing Mercy as she is
I am trying to keep the cooldown the same, so that both the user and the enemy can know that one of these two effects are coming (or rather can occur) every 30 seconds. In this fashion, the game play remains the same as much as possible while ameliorating the specific problems that this change attempts to address, like the slower movement during rez
Thanks for your feedback
Short answer: yes
Detailed answer: In this rework, I am trying to keep as much as possible of the current design as it is. I fully realize that if there is a cast time, Mercy doesn’t benefit quite as much from this ability as she could, because during that 2 seconds or so casting Invigorate, she could be using her normal healing instead for roughly 100 HP potential (50HPs/s times 2 seconds) - but - this is as I am recommending it 2-3 times that amount on the targeted individual plus even more healing (tho i havent worked out the numbers, I figure thats for Blizzard) if any other teammates are within the radius of the “healing explosion” effect. I think the numbers can (and will) be such that the ~2 seconds spent casting it will be well worth it
That could be problematic. The people most in need of a burst heal are those at low health. With a sizeable cast time, there’s a very high chance of your target dying before the heal arrives. It’s bad enough when it happens to Brig’s Armor pack and that thing just has travel time and only a 6s cd.
I guess the next logical question is… if your target dies during the cast time, what happens?
this is an excellent point, one I hadn’t thought of
thank you.
My knee jerk reaction is that it wouldnt make sense to have it rez the now-dead target, as that could potentially be abused to rez someone without having the movement penalty
Taking away the cast time would seem to make the most sense - but - this would mean the power (numbers) would have to drop a bit as well
Another option would be to keep the cast time but have the explosion go off regardless, centered on the deal soul rather than the living target, but I can see that being very disappointing to the Mercy player since they may only be targeting the one player
Bottom line is - gonna need to think on it, but I am leaning towards no cast time and slightly reduced numbers
I would agree with you there.
Agree on that too.
I have 2 suggestions if you are open to them.
Firstly 100 burst heal, instant, puts Res/Invigorate on a 15s cool down.
Secondly keep the cast time and 200-300 heal, but instead of being just a burst heal, it applies a buff that heals for 20 HP/s for long enough to heal for whatever part of the burst wasn’t used. Though now I’m having second thoughts because on the smaller side of the burst heal end, Mercy would be able to give out a 10 second long 20 HPs buff… that might be too much? Maybe make the heal over time stronger to better reward good timing. I’m not sure.
Short answer: i just want the slowdown removed, whatever it takes.
Long answer:
The slowdown is literally what makes me come to this forum to complain. I never visit the forum before the patch. I just want the slowdown removed, whatever it takes.
a. Slowdown removed by reverting mercy? Fine by me.
b. Slowdown removed by deleting res and replacing it with another ability? That’s fine too.
c. Slowdown removed and res is downtuned to compensate? I have no problem with it.
I’ll even accept current valkyrie and that 50hps healing if they just removed the slowdown from mercy kit (point b or c).