??
Needs context. Bastion was meta once, but that was because he was a must pick because they overdid the amount of dmg reduction on ironclad to the point where it was nearly impossible to kill. Other than that I don’t see what anyone did to bastion, and that wasn’t them. >.>
That still doesn’t give them the right to be disrespectful to the voice actress as she watches the hero she voiced be booed by a crowd during a event.
Well, to be fair, Brigitte was introduced because that was how Jeff wanted to tone down insane mobility heroes instead of just balancing the insane mobility.
I did not. I said "the skill level of a character has never mattered when came to counterpicking in this game. Mechanically-easier characters have been counter picks for mechanically-harder characters since the game was launched.
And a bad Brigitte is just ult charge for a Tracer.
That doesn’t change the fact that Winston is a counterpick for Widow and that Brigitte is a counterpick for Tracer.
“The skill level to use Brigitte is there for everyone”.
As I said, play on somebody’s GM account and stay in GM. Then let me know how true that is.
Nothing was twisted. It’s the only way anything you’re arguing makes any sense.
No, all metas eventually filter into online play. During Triple Tank, every hero associated had their online pickrates skyrocket. When Junkrat was briefly meta, his online pickrates skyrocketed. Right now, the GOATS heroes have above-average pickrates.
Even in lower ranks, those characters are still picked more often than usual, even if they still aren’t the MOST popular picks.
If you’re just going to quote the first part of what I said and dismiss the rest of it, I’m going to do the same.
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I see. But saying never is wrong because while it might not matter for low skill heroes, it matters for high skill heroes.
Hard to be ult charge when you have shield to soak up her damage, but Winston vs Widow or Brigitte vs Tracer are not the only match ups.
Like I said, Widow vs Pharah, Genji vs Widow, McCree vs Genji. These are all much healthier matchups because skills of player affect the outcome and that’s what a competitive game is about, player skill.
I’m talking in regards to how the balance design for the game has worked since launch. Blizzard has said that they want to enforce a pick > counterpick > counter-counterpick style of balance, where certain characters are weak against others and you need to swap if your pick isn’t working. They also want ALL characters to be fun and viable.
Thus, the thing people constantly get wrong in regards to skill in this game is that learning and using a high skill character is not meant to overrule also learning and using a low skill one. (And, yes, not vice-versa, either.) Blizzard seems to want it to be more like a skill tier a toolset–if you refuse to learn to use a harder character and only stick to an easier one, then you’re merely depriving yourself and your team from tools which may be needed to win. If you choose to learn Brigitte and only Brigitte and figure aiming is unnecessary, then eventually you’re going to run into a player, character or overall meta where not being able to aim is going to screw you. For instance, I’m one-tricking Brigitte for this season because someone challenged me to see how high I can climb, and I’ve been in several games already where NOBODY on my team could deal with a Pharah because none of us were using long-range, aim-intensive heroes, for whatever reason.
If I weren’t restricting myself, I would have swapped to Ana or Hammond and shot her out of the sky. But that wasn’t a “tool” I have access to as long as I stick to the challenge.
If this were the case, Reinhardt would never have a problem with Tracer.
Tracer is the character MOST capable of running behind Brigitte’s shield and shooting her. She just needs to be a lot more unpredictable with her Blinks, because Brigitte can stun her.
Okay, and? Those are not the only matchups in the game. Reaper is (intended) to counter most Tanks, and he’s one of the mechanically easiest characters in the game. Moira is a counter for Genji, and is also relatively easy.
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Cept the thing is… She IS in line with the usual level of countering. The reason why people cry shes OP isn’t because she is OP, but rather because they keep playing into her strengths. Imagine this is say… Bastion for instance. Another low skill high reward character. Now, I know hes not played as much for a variety of other reasons, but when people complain about him being too powerful, you don’t think " The game needs to be redesigned so that hes less powerful " you think " Hey, stop running directly at the turret with no shields and getting yourself killed "
And unfortunately… Things will change, and have changed. People learn or rage quit. As for slippery slope, the same could be said about one tricking. If they change their stance and try to make the game more in line with that, it sends the message that noone should ever swap, and if your team loses its cause the other team was OP. It says to not take into consideration your own play style or choices, and says its okay to blame everything on outside factors.
Also I think that frankly? A lot of people who complain will eventually stop once they’ve started improving on their own play and more stuff is introduced to the game.
I had a thought that might be a happy medium. Make a secondary mode or a arcade mode where you can’t swap heroes but maybe the stats are tweaked? Might work to appease players who refuse to swap that way they can play as they want while everyone else can play the way the game is designed to be played.
When did he say this? Because hero design does not reflect that design philosophy. Not every hero has a counter so for many heroes there is no counterpick. For that to work every hero needs to be able to counter another hero and have a counter that is equally good at countering him. This is obviously not the case since day 1.
The game also isn’t played on an individual level. Looking at GOATS you would think the counter should be something like Bastion who is good against tanks and shields, or Reaper, but if your dps duo are those two, well, you just get run over.
So not only is there not a counterpick for every hero, but there is team synergy to be considered.
This is really just your speculation on what Blizzard expects us to do. I don’t think Blizzard is even against a hero outplaying his intended counter, but then again, like I said not every hero even has a counter hero.
Reinhardt cannot turn his shield away from 5 enemies because there is one tracer behind his back shooting his head, Brigitte can.
Like I said Brigitte can just use her shield. At 10m the fall off and spread start to really hurt Tracer but playing closer than that you get bashed. It’s easy to say “just be unpredictable with blink” but if you are in bash range you cannot play that mind game because you lose you die to combo, Brigitte loses, she has other things to fall back on. Shield, inspire, whipshot, etc.
If Reaper was an actual tank counter he would have a place in triple tank and GOATs.
I don’t think Moira was intended to counter Genji. I mean, she can beat Genji just like Ana/Zen can…she’s just easier, but not like a counter.
Splitting the playerbase is a bad idea for queue population. It’s already been a year, people know how to play against brigitte, they just don’t want to play that way (and this is their core audience, they need to cater to it), people are still doing it clearly by looking at statistics, so I don’t think it’s on the community any longer, it’s the devs responsibility to take the reigns on this one because it is ruining games for players who dislike the common practice. And yeah, she’s a much bigger counter than any other hero to date, and she counters more than any other hero to date. It’s a problem due to people refusing to play properly.
I have to disagree here. There is a vocal base that hates her for sure, but in all honesty I’m not sure how large of a base that is to call it a core audience. Again, I use characters like Bastion as an example of how the fanbase can complain about a character a lot, until they eventually begin to understand how to work around him.
Again, shes not countering heroes, but rather bad play. Pretty much every hero she counters can out play her with ease. In situations like these, you can’t nerf a char cause… Frankly the char isn’t the problem.
If near a year later, it’s still a massive issue, and shes whinged about on the scale she is in almost every game with a brig present she gets complained about while people refuse to use the in game mechanic ruining the game for others who DO use the in game mechanic… it’s a problem. Everyone suffers because of these people, it needs to be fixed. And the players obviously won’t fix it.
Haven’t you realized that someone is going to be whined/complained about no matter what? If not Brig, then it’ll be Doomfist, or Hanzo, or Widow, or Mercy, or Ana, or whatever. The community will find something to complain about -always-, as it has done since day 1.
Never on this scale.
Uh… I don’t think you’ve been payin much attention if you think that is remotely true.
I’ve been here the whole time, you are the one who hasn’t paid attention.
You might want to check the forums then. Roadhog, Hanzo, hell even Sym and Bastion prove your point about ‘not on this level’ completely wrong. Oh and then there was Mercy too. Genji, Tracer, oh and Doomfist and widow too. Some of these complaints are even going on to this day.
The forums is a chamber of reeing, with my combined effort across all of my accounts with over 4000 levels total, I spend A LOT of time in game, and that’s where you get a taste for whats REALLY on the communities minds. These forums only share the vocal minorities view on overwatch.
That was your first mistake, taking the forums as the whole list of feedback.
I’m using the Forums as a means of accessible information you can easily find. If you want to include other sources, the internet is at your disposal. Not to mention that, yes, even in game chat there has ALSO been the same types of discussions going on there as well.
So no, I’ve not used the forums as a whole list of feedback, but rather one that you can check without simply taking my word on things.
Then you are familiar with Jeff’s view on the forums, and why they don’t put everyones reeing into practice ;D
Like who?
See, the problem with this statement is that some characters are clearly not working as intended. Bastion and Reaper are in a bad place right now. And yes, team synergy is something that Blizzard can’t predict. It took everyone several months to realize the level of synergy Ana had with Rein, Lucio and Reaper that led to Triple Tank/Beyblade meta. Blizzard didn’t intentionally do that–it was something that high level players discovered through months of trial and error.
That some characters wind up way too strong or way too weak is not how the balance is intended to be.
As I already said, every character can outplay their intended counter if the skill gap is too high. That doesn’t change the fact that the character is intended to be their counter.
Brigitte cannot turn her shield away from 5 enemies, either, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
I assume what you mean is “Rein has to shield his team so he can’t turn around to block Tracer”. Except no Tracer is going to run between Rein and his team to attack him. In that situation, Tracer is more likely to attack the squishies on Rein’s team than Rein himself unless she just needs quick Ult charge.
If she’s directly dueling Rein, she going to attack Rein in the same situation she attacks Brigitte: when either of them is either alone or sandwiched with Tracer’s other 5 teammates so that if they turn their shield they get focused.
Well believe what you want, because I don’t really care. I’ve never heard a good Tracer player say they struggle against Brigittes, so I’m gonna chalk this up to a personal skill problem and leave it at that.
Brigitte is a dangerous opponent for Tracer, but if the Tracer is really good, she’s easy to outplay.
As I said, Reaper being terrible is not by design.
It is far easier for Moira to beat and/or escape Genji than Ana or Zen. Ana and Zen rely on projectile abilities and attacks that can be deflected and are much harder to land on a really mobile Genji than Moira’s extremely forgiving beam hitbox, and orb which provides AOE healing or damage, and a movement ability which makes teleport anywhere within a fixed distance.
At this point, I think we’re at an impasse because your entire concept of counters and balance just does not make sense to me.
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