The 'Black Girl' Hero & Apex Legends


#557

And that’s perfectly valid. I don’t personally see them as black because I see that they all the Arab influences in their design, and know how Egyptians tend to identify. And I know that they have the backing of genetic research that shows that region to be very distinctive, to the point they know that modern Egyptians have more of a mix of sub-Saharan African than did the ancient Egyptians based off research on Northern mummies. As you travel south where many Nubians resided, they expect stuff to change and early research indicates that.

But I don’t mind if others see them as black, because black is also used to refer to anyone with a particular skin color. And that skin color has had real world consequences, and that belief has shaped world politics. It affects people’s lives to this day.

I think it may be better to say that people want a hero that is of sub-Saharan African descent, but that requires a lot of explaining and history that can be short handed by the word black. And so I understand why such a simple request doesn’t generally involve such explanations.

In the end, I come down on the side of them being Arabs because of their numerous cultural markers indicating Arab origin, and the real world history and identification of most Egyptians. But I don’t really care so much so long as people don’t use it as a way to invalidate the desire of others to see a black woman in Overwatch of sub-Saharan African descent.


#558

But see you saying that you don’t see them as black because you see Arabic influences logically doesn’t make sense. They have nothing to do with one another is my point. So you can’t use that as a reasoning for why they are not black.


#559

They do have something to do with each other. I just explained it to you as well. Arab is a distinctive genealogical group. You can tell someone is Arab through their DNA. They are a distinct group through history, average physical traits, culture, genetics, etc. And that has meaningful impact on the way they view the world and how others treat them.


#560

Nope from the Arabs Encyclopedia website.

“There are several ways to be considered an Arab. One is by lineage, considered to be “pure Arab,” which can be traced as far back as [Noah] through his son Shem. Another group, considered to be “Arabized-Arabs,” come from [North African] or Middle Eastern countries outside the [Arabian Peninsula]. This group includes anyone who speaks Arabic, follows Arabic traditions, and is loyal to Arabic politics.”

So you can still be an Arab as long as you follow Arab traditions.


#561

That’s referring to Arab as an ethnic group, not Arab as a genealogical group.


#562

How do you know Pharah and Ana are genealogical Arab? Have you done a DNA test on them? You haven’t you’re going off ethnic cues. So ethically I agree with you that they are Arab. Genealogically we don’t know. Only Blizzard could confirm that.


#563

This is how the Germans of WW2 (really, this site doesn’t let you say the German workers party name?) talked about the other races. They were obsessed with race.

You young generation… really disturb me with your obsession with skin color, they way you refer to it, and the importance you place on it. It really shouldn’t matter, science dictates the “races” are all the same genetically. Meaning, we are just one race, we just have different color due to exposure to the elements.

Seriously, just drop it already. This isn’t healthy whatsoever.


#564

Blizzard would have to convey this with art cues, or having one of them discuss it in some capacity in some lore thing.

Blizzard instead has largely focused on their Arabic heritage at the expense of everything else. The only thing they have done outside of that is illustrating that Pharah is biracial, with her father appearing to be a First Nations person.

When asked if it was possible to have a black woman character added someday, Blizzard just said something along the lines of “Yes, but not right now because reasons,” rather than talk about Pharah and Ana, even when one of the VAs tried to include Orisa (:roll_eyes:) which Chu could have used as a segue into those two.

It just makes sense to me given all that to view them as Arab.

I don’t think you are wrong to believe them to be Black. They very well could be. But, I just don’t agree.

Also, just because I don’t agree they are black, that doesn’t mean that I approve of all of the commentary in this thread about black people’s looks.


#565

That is an invalid argument.

Hammond had virtually no audience, requests to be in, or need to be represented in the game and was still implemented anyways. In fact, Jetpack Cat was a pretty popular request and they didn’t implement it either.

So it’s clearly not a matter of ‘appealing to certain audiences’ so much as they choose not to explicitly. And in a game where, once again, you have mecha pilot chicks, mecha rolling ball hamsters, and huge armored german dudes, DON’T tell me that appealing to a small minority of people ISN’T something that the developers themselves haven’t spent the creation of their game doing in the first place.


#566

Would be nice if we got in overwatch hero like Mirrage from apex legends. I like his kit and holograms…


#567

Fair enough. Thank you for respectfully agreeing to disagree.


#568

Haha what do you call saying I’m here to “crap on black folks” or “argue with black people”? So in your opinion I’m here to have a go at black people but that’s not you calling me racist? Dream on. Targetting a race with hateful rhetoric is the epitome of racism and something I have not engaged in. Hence false calls to racism.

I’ve posted to inform ignorant and ill-reasoned people such as yourself. I don’t care if you’re black. I care that you’re wrong and calling others racist for speaking out.


#569

Yh except if you actually read and understood what I’d posted at every stage I explicitly said that the people I described ARE black. In the cases of black people with non- typical characteristics though it is highly likely they have mixed genetics with other races at some point in their family tree, it’s just they are ignorant of this. Give them a genetic test and you’d likely find it. Where races start and end is indeed a very blurry line and it doesn’t mean that they aren’t black, it just means that to some degree they are likely a mix of something else. Normally this isn’t isn’t something I’d bat an eyelid at but when people start saying that obviously racially and culturally Arab characters are black due to how they look, I want to correct that. Even worse you’re spouting rubbish that Middle Eastern people have no distinct race separate from black. That’s just rubbish and not backed up by science. They literally have certain genes that are different to any other race. As I’ve said a number of times now, Arab/Middle Eastern people deserve representation too and people shouldn’t try to take their characters away from their targeted demographic. You wouldn’t like it if people tried to redifine the characters you identify with so don’t do it to others.


#570

Blizzard needs a marketing reason for these to happen.


#571

Yeah because you seem really keen on demanding that we explain ourselves in a topic that has answered every question a person like you could possibly have. If you wanted to learn, you would’ve read the thread already. Instead you’re still arguing with me and mooning everyone with the misfortune of reading this exchange.

If you don’t want me to think anything of your character, make an effort to read. Or continue crying that the black folks aren’t serving you free of charge.

Your choice. Makes me no difference. :tea:


#572

Well damn. Son’d that man. Oof.


#573

All the chickens in this thread are my sons.


#574

Damn… Just damn… shook his head

In any event, the ultimate respect and salute to you. Always and forever, comrade.


#575

“non- typical characteristics…”

And those are? I’d like to read your description of a typical black person.


#576

Don’t hold your breath on an answer.