1 - Same as your claim my dude. It makes zero sense.
2 - Like how? One thing is saying “I want this” and another thing is actually doing a proper suggestion. In which universe does a hitscan do “bad” compared to projectile? Specially when such things already exist.
3 - Pharah and Echo are even better in open areas. Thats where the “air heroes” shine, what? What you mean is wider non choke areas and thats a warzone for everyone.
4 - Nah. Any range a hitscan does well, Hanzo can do better. If all hitscans have good aim, we also can assume that for Hanzo.
5 - Not slightly, BRUTALLY better. Again, projectiles do way way way way way more damage per hit/shot so the requirements of consistency are way way way way lower in comparison. Any hitscan that can’t get to 50% accuracy is basically feeding ult charge to Supports.
All maps DO NOT favor hitscan, you havent prove that and it is statistically, empirically and factually inaccurate. Dont run around and focus on what is important : What is the point of the thread? What is your actual practical suggestion that should be done here?
Without that you are just throwing opinions that can go either way, post something practical with numbers/logic/examples that can be discussed.
1.Actually no the whole post was me explaining why Hitscans are so powerful, all you said was nuh uhh, unless you were talking my response to that in which case i did explain my reasoning which was that you yourself didn’t
that only proves my point. there are no scenarios where hitscan does poorly compared to a projectile but there are many times when a projectile does
Yes pharah and echo does well but since it’s the same situation a hitscan would be good, it means that it’ll still be a better choice to go hitscan since not only are hitscan great in that case but also because they simultaneously counter pharah and echo so it’s just an even bigger more points in favor of having a hitscan in that scenario instead of pharah or echo
yes Hanzo at his maximum potential is broken, i ain’t gonna argue with you there
projectile heroes might but as any Overwatch player will tell you consistency is king, it’s far better to have a character that 60dmg per shot and hits 70% of the time os better than a character who does 120dmg and hits 35% of the time
and finally do you really want me to give you the numbers, give you the dimensions of each map in each area and give you the exact size of each area to explain how each hitscan character will fair compared to a each projectile hero in that same apot than calculate the average to find out who comes on top.
No you don’t you’ll just won’t read it
not every claim needs numbers to go along with it, and that’s assuming that i can even find the data since I doubt i can find the win percentage of each hero for each map.
This is false, most points have multiple line of sight breaks. or made to have a cart to act as mobile LOS break to change up the fight in a given area. That and the parts of the maps that do have LOS to the point require the user to be left in clear view of the enemy. Usually in a posistion where they can be easily be dived or flanked.
no that is also untrue, whule there are plenty of little things to break LOS they aren’t very effective and only delays the inevitable as you will have to leave that spot eventually now for the cart itself it’s not very good cover for example you hit underneath the cart no problem and most postions will be on highground aloowing you to aim over the cart rendering it useless.
as for veing able to flank that also isn’t true or well not all of them an easy example is Attacking on King’s row where u can stay up top of the spawn area and shoot from there it’s physically impossible to get around them
there’s also 1st part and 3rd part of Havana where in the 1st part you can see the main lane as well all the flanks routes,
and in the 3rd part of Havana it’s physically impossible to be able to sneak up on someone at the sea fort sniping spot without being seen by the person up there.
and for the counter sniping argument, the best sniper by far in the game is Widow and against a projectile opponent or even most opponenents for that she has a very heavy advantage as even if they did manage to kill she can fire off a shot while the projectiles are flying at her assuming ofc that u can out snipe the sniper or if you use another hitscan hero than you’re only proving my case
For starters theirs only 1 or 2 abilities that naturally go under the cart like rien’s shatter. The rest of the cast is too tall to shoot under the cart, while on flat ground in the normal moment to moment gameplay.
Their are a few very specific spots that put you low enough to the cart to do so, but those are the exception to the rule not the standard. Their are point of HighGround that allow you to shoot around the cart, however those positions force the shooter to be easily accessible via flank or by dive heroes. Or simply can be avoided by moving around other parts of the map.
durdo is a good example. As the first bit of highground you see out of the attackers spawn is partially blocked by the rafters. Meaning that the attacker has limited visibility of the defenders, as soon after the walk out of spawn they can go through a flank on both the left and right of the map. One will bring you right to the attackers highground that’s right at the door.
The other will take you directly below the other bit of highground that gives you a flank to the enemies that are on the ground. As well as a safe place to push the cart once it gets around to that second bend.
Theirs even a door that specifically leads you to said flank. if you want to cut all LOS chances of the enemy seeing you from either position.
I would also like to point out that widow is the only hitscan hero that doesn’t loss damage at the ranges found on the first and second point of havanna. Soldier, cassidy, and ashe would be loosing most of their damage at those ranges. To the point where a main healing can easily off.
Like at the ranges found in havana 2nd were the cart first takes the bend, he would be doing 6 points of damage pershot and nine shots a seconds. that’s 54 dps with perfect aim. And it’s not till they start taking that turn into the castle till soldier is remotely effective.
Ashe shares his fall-off ranges on scope, cassidy’s is considerably shorter. Where as widow can’t do anything to barriers, nor can she do much to the dive ranks out side of running out of position.
That and of course hitscans tend to have less then 40 percent accuracy even in the pro-level games/top500. Widow can be an exception, where as some of them sit closer to 50% acc. But even then that’s at the top of the rankings, were their are players that also are just as skilled with flankers/and dive tanks that can make her mute.
well if there were that amny work arounds than no one would be playing there need to remember that for the Dorado 1st high ground poin and 2nd the whole team can be and often are up there. and while the 2st 2 aren’t particularly powerful high ground postions aren’t powerful the 3rd above the large doors at the 1st checkpoint certainly is as there is only 1 flank route in that postion, the other 2 the person on the highground will see, and that flank route only couple of character can even use and only genji can do so without spending an ability.
but that’s enough about specifics, the point is that there many in many mapsbthat are wide open and in the most important spots which greatly benefits hitscan heroes while to the projectile characters detriment in general, while we barely see the reverse and i argue even if ever and that the few examples that you can show hitscan are still good while the reverse doesn’t happen and that the highest highs of projectile hero doesn’t compsre to a hitscan’s
It’s designed so that both sides have equal influence over a given area, Like you can get around high ground. but at the same time you still need to duel the enemy their, and at which point you make space for the team on the ground to play around. As the focus is not solely on them, but at the same time the defending team can adjust their position in the same way.
As they can fall back to the choke to play around their, while if they win the duel or push back the diver they have a 5v6 (4v5) on their hands.
It’s a push and pull situation, where the fight ultimately moves with the cart. As once its to that choke the attacking team has a direct and safe route to the cart and a flank around the side of the choke. Where much of that high ground can be used to push into the enemy.
Be it that of course these are now very much more predictable positions to come from. So you can basically guaranty that close range fight, but you still have to win such to proceed. Or at the very least make space for your team to play around.
Yes their is no go here and win button, but their is in fact ways to play around the advantages position the enemy can take. It’s meant to be fare and accessible to both teams to various degrees, depending on where the cart/team fights are breaking out.
That is what you need to answer, because your claims have “feelings” behind it, no numbers nothing. If anyone can throw any random claim we might as well be discussing why the sky is purple, which is pointless and a waste of time. Give something specific because your claim, is straight up false.
If you dont have numbers, stats or at least any logic, it makes zero sense to start discussing about alternate universes or theoretical scenarios where you believe X happens. Your logic makes zero sense. You are literally claiming that because hitscan dont do BAD in X occasions, ALL maps favors hitscans. That is a non sequitur at best.
I have paragraphs explaining why i think The map design heavily favors hitscan and punishes projectiles, explaining how Hitscans are better in this type of landscape and i don’t need to pull up a data sheet for you to know that it’s true, Pick junkrat and then fight in open area and tell me how well that goes, then pick a hitscan and do the same thing, everybody knows and will tell you that the hitscan does better, now because that is true it explains why having most objectives and important places in open areas is advantageous to hitscan heroes and actively detrimental to projectile players.
And then i explained that there are times where Projectile dps shine which are choke points and again you can pick a projectlie hero and fight there and then do it with a hitscan and you can see who’s a better pick, but than i also explained that Hitscan heroes are still useful in choke points by pointing out the fact that almost all choke points have a high ground over looking it or an open area right before or after the choke while open areas have no such luxury for the projectile heroes
I’m not going to pull up images of each maps layout to show that to you because you have memory and can see it for yourself, I’m not going to pull up footage of a projectile dps fighting in an open area than comparing it to a hitscan doing the same thing because i don’t have to because you guys can and most likely have done it before and can see for yourself that it is true.
if you aren’t happy with my reasoning for why i think the map design favors hitscan over projectiles, well too bad
Your reasoning is flawed and based on a premise that doesnt exist.
OW is not a 1v1 game nor it has an INSANE amount of “open” (which you are still using wrong, you mean wide) areas where the range of motion is easier for hitscans. That is just a fact and ALL the Devs are creating the maps with mostly routes that can be attacked or defended with projectiles.
Again READ what I asked dude : You are complaining about X and not adding ANY suggestion about anything.
They are not going to rework ALL the maps so for the third time (lets see if you dont pivot and run away talking about nothing) : What is the point of the thread? What is your actual practical suggestion that should be done here?
Again, your premise is wrong and if you dont think it is, I dont care “too bad” mate, but even if it wasn’t, what is your point here? Just complaining? Ranting to the air? What is it? What should be change? What should they do?
Hanzo is damage outlier for projectile heroes, and his damage isn’t as good as his hitscan counterpart in Widow, and he fires slower even before you account for projectile travel time.
Mei and Torb are next up with 75 and 70 damage shots (respectively) that can crit, but both are matched by Ashe and Cass. And, as in the above case, both have lower rates of fire than their counterparts.
After that you start getting into the mid-range damag, burst-fire weapons like Echo and Genji (17/51 and 29/87 respectively). Oddly enough, there is no hitscan hero with a comparable weapon in the damage role – only Bap has a similar weapon (who is better compared to Lucio for obvious reasons).
Finally you get into the explosives, which can hit like a truck, but can’t crit, which still puts their damage potential lower than the likes of Cass/Ashe/Widow on a per-shot basis, and are on the low-end of sustained damage over time (141dps for Pharah vs 140 bodyshot-only on Cass, for instance). Obviously we don’t have a 1:1 comparison here since a hitscan explosion would be utterly insane, even by Overwatch design standards.
So no, projectile weapons in OW don’t do, quote, “way way way way way more damage per hit/shot” – they’re on par or worse in almost every case.
Again, you are wrong. Again, you are conveniently forgetting that the projectiles have a BIGGER hitbox. Also you clearly seem to forget Zen ? and Lucio? and Ana ? Because she is also projectile with M1.
Also conveniently forgetting Sombra, Reaper, who have much lower ranges and Tracer? who also does tickle damage too beyond 10 mt. Damage fall off is a thing, a very BIG thing and hitscans are the ones getting hit by that con the most.
They are on par only in some cases, and when we count explosives and splash damage, they are MILES ahead. Check your math mate, and check all the heroes that are hitscan, not Ash/Cass/Widow because its just convenient, ok ? So yes, the claim stays.
I was saying it’s standard because that’s what most shooters use. Nothing to do with quake. It’s just the easiest to implement, it’s been around for the longest, and it feels good. It’s just what people use.