So let’s take a look here you got
- Lucio wallrun with speed boost and in-combat self regen
- Genji double jump and climb
- D.va charging up her Ult to Call Mech
- See through energy barriers
- Pharah Ult
- Widow/Ball Grapple
- Sombra stealth
Exactly 1 of those existed when the game was released. The Devs have been slowly breaking Tanking and Recovery for a long time at this point.
This may have changed after all her nerfs, but Moira sucks at getting kills. Her primary value is and always has been her healing. Essentially Moira is a main healer who can duel through reliable damage and self sustain. She is not and never was any kind of damage dealer. Trying to claim otherwise is just… what?
Brigitte was a Tank/Healer hybrid. Tanks have to be lethal under certain circumstances otherwise they’ll get ignored and be unable to do their job of taking or enforcing space. Brigitte is no different. She was lethal under the right circumstances because she needed to be. However at no point was it her primary job to get picks and kills.
But I doubt his firepower is similar to Titanfall 2 Pilots. Lucio’s DPS is not particularly high or reliable. If he gets one, cool, but he’s mostly there for the speed boost and boops.
But basically you’re saying if they nearly copycat something from a class based shooter, then lower the damage, then it’s not from a class based shooter.
Yes because once you lower the damage enough, the main purpose of that Class/Hero is no longer to inflict damage on the enemy team but to use their other abilities to bolster their teammates.
Once that happens, you’ve got at least some of the player base not playing a FPS anymore. It’s FP still, but they’re not focused on the S… so it’s something else.
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I have yet to see this incredibly rare feat done with any consistency
I think the big concern from many support players is the reduction of healing combined with removal/reduction of cc. While most understand the need for reduced healing, there is a concern that the overall changes will leave supports uninteresting and unimpactful.
The Brigitte discussion from the AMA did lend some hope, as they described the compensation for the stun loss. Perhaps not what people want, but it’s something.
Hopefully they shed additional light soon.
There are several FPS games that have features classes like medics, heavies, tanks, etc.
Like the ones mentioned in this thread already like TF2, Battlefield and Rainbow Six as well.
They all have abilities and tools unique to their classes. Its not always about shooting.
And if you are implying that its not all about shooting but other things , insinuating things that are MOBA-like. That is also a stretch. OW has very little in common with a moba.
Even heroes like Rein, Brig, Doom are all more at home in a Fighting game more than a moba.
Fire strikes, charges, ground slams, uppercuts, whip shots, hammer swings, Rocket punches, shield bashes, etc, are all in line with fighting game moves. Ultimates as well originated in fighting games.
Also the concept of blocking damage is a huge gameplay element in fighting games. Just push the opposite direction of where your opponent is (back) and you block damage sometimes with shields.
The only heroes that are moba-like are Mercy, Moira and Sig.
The rest are heavily influenced by Past FPS team shooters and fighting games.
I mean, this sure reminds me of Rein barriers.
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Yeah OW took from several FPS games as well as fighting games as inspiration.
Besides games like your example there have been riot shields in FPS games before as well as energy shields in Sci-Fi FPS games.
Even as someone who pulls the blaster pretty often, Mercy’s weapon is not remotely comparable to Tracer’s. The people who lose to Mercy are the unaware and the poorly positioned.
I would be more than happy though if they chose to ‘nerf’ Mercy’s weapon into Tracer’s. Imagine the chaos.
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I’m aware. My thing is which part is most important for the majority of players. TF2 for example has 9 mercs. 8 of them are pretty much different flavors of DPS. The one exception, Medic usually has 1-2 of them on a 12 man team. That’s only 16.67% of most teams.
Let’s look at Overwatch now. 2-2-2 lock means we’ve got 2 tanks, 2 dps, and 2 healers. That means that we have 66.67% of most teams who are focused on other stuff other than shooting enemies. This goes a bit wonky with hybrids like Zen and Roadhog, but still… that’s a far cry from TF2’s 16.67%.
That’s why I say that Overwatch 1 is not a class based FPS. It has classes. It is in First Person. However, the majority of players aren’t primarily concerned with shooting.
Also from this I’m assuming the mobas you’ve played are mostly LoL and Dota2. There are others that are much more action oriented that are quite a bit closer to Overwatch. Most notably, Smite.
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That isnt going live, it was a test. there wont be a blanket nerf to all heals, but they are making changes individually. The current healing numbers were actually too strong in 5s
False. Even as bap and as someone who comes from FPS background, sombra still has an advantage over support in effective damage (the ability to frag). Only reason why I consistently frag Soldier: 76 is because he’s the only few DPS that doesn’t just outright kill you in one shot or have no spread, no recoil, high burst medium-to-long range damage like Ashe/Widow. DPS still has way more burst damage and some has more sustained damage than supports like zen who only does damage.
The only support that technically has an advantage over DPS is ana in long-range since her rifle has no fall-off damage. If you’re dueling bap as mei who is more of a utility DPS, then of course you’ll lose to him. But you can’t use that as the basis of support doing just as much damage as DPS. There are plenty of DPS besides mei who either does very high burst and/or sustained damage.
This is correct. Support could be doing a lot more damage if they didn’t have to focus so much on healing.
DPS aren’t only picked for damage. They are also picked for their utility (sombra, mei, symettra) and space controlling ultimate as well (B.O.B, Dragonstrike, Blizzard, Molten Core
etc). Some DPS literally creates space just by existing like doomfist (albeit he only works on certain maps). I think a lot more goes into DPS than just raw damage. I personally think it’s okay for supports to have equal damage to DPS, but their self-healing/defensive abilities needs to be toned down if that was to happen so that it’ll be equal fight.
Tank/Support is very appealing in Overwatch because many games fail to make tank/support as an idea feel impactful without simply resorting to damage as the chief strategy that works. I always just remember many FPS games with the idea of a riot shield being sort of laughable and a meme build.
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I think part of the reason why a lot of supports get defensive over ana/bap/zen is because they’re playing them like a DPS (while healing ofc). If DPS queue time was fixed, I’d imagine we wouldn’t have as much support having a knee jerk reaction over nerfs to their ability to frag. I bet at least half of the support players are former DPS mains who could no longer afford to waste time waiting for DPS queue.
Also, supports like mercy is really fun to play and a good example of a “healer” that’s specific to its role. The only issue is that mercy doesn’t have much solo carry potential. If these two issues can be resolved, then support won’t have to be this hybrid of DPS wanna be healer like they’re right now.
It’s because support can get easily countered. You were doing well on bap? Well not anymore if the enemy switches to widow. You were doing well on ana? Not anymore if the enemy switches to doomfist/genji/tracer.
Supports just can’t win against DPS who has significantly higher roster of heros that can counter them. Their primarily strength still relies on healing and utilities, not out-dueling DPS.
Uhm, this is true for every hero, not just supports. DPS and tanks both have their counters as well…
I never said they regularly just out-duel DPS. I just said that people like to pretend that there’s some stark difference between them as if supports are these wimpy frail things hiding in the back and die if you breath on them. Meanwhile DPS heroes are apparently running around uncontested one clipping supports in the backline having a party. Like, nah bro that’s not what happens. The two are on closer footing than people think.
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Right but DPS also has more heroes that can solo carry. With support, you almost always will be playing main-healer in ranked if you want to consistently climb. And there are only three main-healers, and only two of them have decent solo carry potential. If these two gets countered, it’s kinda hard to solo carry.
Same goes with tanks but even worse. Hammond has one of the highest solo carry potential of all tanks, but if he gets countered, it becomes harder to climb.
Whereas with DPS, almost all heroes have a decent solo carry potential (due to lesser team-reliancy) and they have many heroes to choose from which allows them to find a better suited hero for specific map/hero composition/counter etc.
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Or just design most healers to appeal to persuadable DPS players, and make Mercy the exception of a “Pure Healer”.
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You wish. Mercy was resurrect-focused healer, just like TF2 Medic is overheal-focused healer.
Which is why devs attempts to make Mercy about “healing and mobility” are just absurd - focus is always what helps to counter burst damage.
Valve also tried to make Medic “healing-focused” at one point, by introducing Quick-fix, which didn’t have any overheal at first. But they had to add overheal to it later on, realising, that without it Medic simply sucks.
It would be more or less defined as a Hero Shooter. Originally OW didn’t have restrictions, the Tank/Attack/Defense/Support classification was more to sort the characters into specific playstyles to make it easier for the player (specifically new players) to pick characters.