I’m not talking about before 2-2-2.
I’m talking about this 1-3-2 and there’s no choice here. Burst DPS obliterate tanks extremely easily, and I experienced this myself on the DPS side too that in spite of all these “buffs” Mei hard-counters all tanks by herself and then the snipers have their way completely uncontested by anything but other snipers.
I am not a proponent of 1-3-2.
Just merely pointing out that one of the reasons for the 2-2-2 mentality is as I described. They don’t want change. Just making observations.
Chill, you are reading to far into what I am saying.
I feel… satisfaction… when i go toe to toe with someone and win, or even lose on fairish terms.
Like getting flanked, as Zen, by a Tracer. I am gonna die, but I am a really feisty Zen and chace off tracers all the time. It’s good because we have these interactions together in a match, that give and take, back and forth.
In terms of tanks, it’s the same, it’s why I hate CC (cause it’s lazy writing that requires someone to take that interaction away.).
So yesterday, when I was Zarya and the enemy had D’va, it was boring, that nuance was gone as i could just beam her…
I could go on and complain about I was enjoying (I like and dislike it) but you said you just wanted to know where I get my satisfaction from and simply, it just from meeting someone of about my skill and going toe to toe on fair terms.
Haven’t played experimental yet.
I like to help the frontline but keeping and eye in the backline when is needed(like off tank). The peel feels good in this game.
In my mind I would need to play a DD with utility to peel instead an off tank, to play as before(will see that today).
I like teamwork and I like leading the team. But this isn’t a game about teamwork so solo tanking is like pulling teeth.
I actually really like solo tanking on hog now and off tanks in general feel great in the solo. But it’s not the same as the reliability of what orisa used to feel like.
Moreover, the reason I like hog is that I’m not playing him as a tank, but as another dps with utility.
This wouldn’t have been me in season 4 because I didn’t like to dps. 222 made me like DPS.
I want to protect my team , and be reliable. But 3 dps just…have no reason to follow my lead, and so the team crumbles
And that feels awful
I draw the line when the character I’ve played for near 4 years is altered to be something I didn’t want. It’s like Sym. She was changed so many times. I felt bad for people to originally played Sym 1.0. I hated 1.0, but the only change I wanted from that. Was her beam disconnect when it hit a wall. Not act like Mercy’s beam. Than she got 2 more reworks. What is Sym’s identity? A taxi driver.
Second, it’s because again, characters are changed because of DPS. Zarya was screwed around thanks to who? Hanzo - DPS. So yeah, I’m gonna feel like: What is this garbage.
Third, I don’t care how strong I am. I don’t want to be alone. And I don’t even consider Zarya stronger now. Yeah, she has a team wide bubble. But all it did was make her easier. You don’t have to pay attention to the second bubble. Than they don’t even bother changing her ultimate? At this point, get rid of tanks and make everyone DPS.
These are not the same characters anymore. I don’t want more health and reduced damage. I don’t want the responsibility. I don’t want to deal with Mei. I want her deleted, if you going to screw with these characters. I wanted the character I play left alone.
And fourth, people are already asking for nerfs. It’s never going to end. with the complaints till you just want tanks to do nothing by stand there and shield. I rather than just leave and go play PVE when OW2 comes out. Or not even bother returning. I don’t want this change to go through out of dishonestly why it’s being even considered in the first place. To help someone else at the cost of others.
Live with Que times or make tanks that people want to use. Because you hurting tank designs to fix the DPS times. That means I have the right to say: Fix the tanks, so I want to play Zarya again. The way she’s meant to be played. Oh yeah, 8m bubble range from a single 30m one? Screw off.
See but Tanks were designed to do certain things. Reinhardt has a Shield, D.va has mobility and defense matrix. Saying D.va should just not use parts of her kit to do things she was designed to do doesn’t make sense. It would be like saying Soldier 76 should just never use his healing ability because we’ve decided to only have there be one dps per team and they can only do damage now. It just doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t feel right to the people who’ve been playing that hero, the way they were designed, for years.
I also think asking one of the smaller margins of players who are willing to queue into a role that is, by popular data, undesirable, to completely alter the entire way their role plays in a way that is limiting solely for the purpose of another role getting shorter wait times is kind of ridiculous.
If it’s going to be drastically different; Blizzard either needs to find a way make it be a better different or not make it different at all.
And I know I’ve seen a good number of Supports voicing their concern over the 1-2-3 as well, in addition to the many Tanks I’ve seen, not just here, but on Reddit and other websites. I’ve also seen a decent amount of Streamers and Pro’s express that they didn’t think it was a good change for the game at all. Plus, Jeff himself posting in the forums yesterday that the changes probably wouldn’t be going live due to a mostly negative community response.
I think it would drive a lot of the community away, especially a lot of the tank players who are higher ranked or were pursuing professional careers in that specialty. I also think it would make for horrible esport streaming to watch. As it stands, I really doubt you’ll see this change going live. It might become an arcade mode.
Oh and side note: A masters or gm long range dps or flanker would pick off a squishy support standing in the open in like .2 seconds. I’ve seen it happen in some of our league games before, and that was with a shield and their heads dipping just out of the corner of its radius.
1-3-2 strips out a lot of the tactics of playing tank and turns them into chunky DPS who only need to focus on kills. Removes almost all push pull game play being you either wipe the other team instantly or you get wiped out instantly.
A lot of tank vs tank fights don’t even happen, being the other tank is already dead.
I assume lower SR sort of tanks or non-main tank players enjoy that being they are finally off the leash so to speak to just go kill stuff and 5 players are squishy heroes now.
but it just guts all the interesting tank+ whatever ULT combos you might get AND needing to watch for a huge range of them AND all the positional moves you do for this one but not that one etc.
I can also see the writing on the wall as to the meta with a 1-3-2 system. Sure you can play active mobile or shield free tanks now, being it’s like QP out there.
SR correct players going try hard, most of all past 3k? It would just be double sniper everywhere and tanks would be turned into 100% hard shield with no fighting being even 1/2 a second of your team without a shield 100% up when on attack would be a possible team wipe.
as dive can’t really come back with so much CC, new heroes with CC and dive resistant supports like Brig/Moira.
I’m not a tank main, but I loved playing offtanks. I loved playing them because they felt like support, I enjoy bubbling my Rein as he charges, matrixing my Winston, etc. I play a fair amount of shield tanks but only for the sake of the team.
I don’t think I’ll ever tank in 3/2/1, I don’t like being the focus of attention in any capacity. I don’t want to be responsible for dictating pace, blamed one second for being too aggressive and the next for sitting in choke too long. Etc
That said I’m not against 3/2/1, but it will require a LOT more changes.
How’s D.Va? Can’t try it till i get home
how did i say dva shouldn’t do her job?
Honestly what I feel like I’m hearing is that you are trying to tank in the old 222 construct in a 132 construct and you are not happy with it.
If your dps all decide to go flanky dive pew pew, then you and the healers should also be flanky dive pew pew (not always optimal for game mode, but just roll with it to create synergy for the team).
If the healers want to be stationary deathball/brawl fighters, but the rest of the team is highly mobile, they will be left behind. Thats why lucio, moira, mercy exist. For tanks thats why wrecking ball, winston, dva exist.
I remember playing rein before 222 against tripple or quad dps teams. I had to switch, there were too many angles for me to cover effectively. Hence, 1 tank does not fit all situations (don’t try to force rein into everything).
Honestly the dps picks don’t always make sense for the game mode, but I chalk this up to “experimental”. If people take it seriously then metas will form and group synergies will establish per map and game mode.
The experience is entirely dependant on what tanks you play.
If you play Zarya, this Experiment is the best thing that ever happened.
If you play Hog, you’re just getting screwed over. Again.
Hammond, you got utterly overlooked. He’s in no way main tank material; the tiniest bit of CC dismantles him, but nothing was done to him.
If you play D.Va, the cartel is already making up BS about her and overhyping to try and get her nerfed.
Meanwhile, Sigma (and Orisa to a lesser extent) have been banished to Narnia and will see no play by anyone with half a working brain cell.
So yeah, opinions will be divided because this balance patch didn’t treat tanks equally and for most, really just reinforced the same crappy treatment they’d been getting.
Main tank D.Va is great if you don’t want a main tank.
She dives like a beast and assassinates like she ought to have been doing all along.
But once people figure out she’s really bad at protecting her team, and that they can still DELETE her with Mei or Zarya…they’ll still complain about her being OP because people don’t have a shred of honesty.
Oh, and her ult is even more of a joke now that there’s almost nothing to pair it with and they left the three second telegraph unchanged.
(sorry so many good discussions here, but your posts have the most content which are good for debate, not trying to single you out and argue but I think it creates positive interactions and learning/growth for this experiment)
You mentioned D.Va not being able to use her kit, I simply disagree with the intent of the kit. Her kit with meant to be mobile, fly on high ground and take space from the enemy…yes…but her kit also was supposed to be mobile fly to an ally and defense matrix incoming damage to save them (even more important with her matrix range nerf a while back).
So 132 still encourages her mobility to help defend targets.
Rein’s kit is to push through chokes, close gap, and make/hold space through melee range threat. His shield became synonymous with an unbreakable barrier because for a long while people never shot shields, then double shield was a thing, and then nerfs come in that make shields less useful.
I feel people have become handicapped with the invincible shield idea and don’t know how to play without it now. Use natural cover (walls and corners) close distance through correct pathing, and use shield to travel any distance those walls did not provide.
Shields help buy time, but shouldn’t mean we stand out in the open forever. That is just bad positioning. If you are forced in open to take/defend a point, then sure you have to be out there and shield can buy time, but at that point there is a fight happening all around you and it often becomes a null factor then anyway.
Well I’m not “trying” to, I am tanking in the current game mode which is 2-2-2. And I have also tanked in 1-3-2 as well and I haven’t lost once. I’ve been saying that with the way it was put out on experimental, the heroes are all still designed to tank in 2-2-2, yet are being put into a solo-tanking situation with abilities that if they use or don’t use, it hurts their team. Tanking in 1-3-2 isn’t hard and it doesn’t require some special adaptation to do. It’s literally facetaking, it’s like the kind of tanking I used to do in gold.
I’m not complaining because it’s hard or I can’t, I’m complaining because I spent hundreds of hours becoming skilled at a more advanced and useful type of gameplay/skill ceiling that I can no longer use in this experimental format that Blizzard has not adequately adapted that character for in design.
This thread asked why I didn’t like the changes as a tank player, and that’s why. The playstyle is brain-dead bot now and I don’t find it “fun” to go from becoming really good at something to no longer being able to use it that way at all. It’s just a bad game mode for me and for most people I know who I duo-tank with at my ELO.
You are right, the thread is asking why do tanks have such a split reception to this mode.
I think some of the good points brought up are:
Non-synergetic group compositions making matches feel like tank and healers standing around while dps run around randomly
Pigeon holing the single tank into picking one task and letting the other fall apart. Dive a threat or protect my healers (dps again don’t tend to be there so non-issue). There isn’t a second tank to help do both.
Game modes and hero skills still encouraging 222 style gameplay, so buffs/nerfs/reworks are still needed to carve out a 132 style fight.
Reliance on dps to make a play instead of balance of any role can make a play. Tanks have less of an effect by sheer numbers, making the role feel less impactful to some and more impactful to others. Any mistake is punished and this feels good or bad based on individual personalities.
mei deletes everyone wym?
Want to know why?
One side are the tanks playing Reinhardt, the other side are tanks playing ANY of the other 7 pickable tanks
This statement was intended to be relative to your rank. Not in rank scale.
A good tank at plat should be able to solo tank against plat players.