Symmetra: What does she need now?

I dont think you can just simply tweak her numbers and call her balanced because her kit is flawed. Changing minor numbers isnt going to fix anything.

I disagree.
I don’t think her kit’s “flawed” at all.
Sym 3.0 can do many things in concert that other DPS cannot individually: zone out of areas, create dive comps out of non-dive comps, become a mini-Zarya, wall making, etc.

I think it’s now a question of tweaking ranges/damage/cooldowns in a way to further cement her contributions in an impactful way, so that players are freer to pick her without the throwing accusations…

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Ok. Well… Im glad you like her. Sadly, I dont think she is anywhere near balanced and I still think her kit is lacking direction. She is a utility DPS with a support ult.

In a lot of ways, Sym is still a total joke. I hope they can figure it out because I LOVE Sym to death. Im super sad that she is still broken.

I knew she would be. They dont have a good history with “reworks”

RIP Torb.

The QoL changes I would suggest to allow her to fulfill her role of short to mid range attack character are as follows:

Photon Beam (Primary Fire)

  • Range Reduction back to 10m (this is to balance out the following additions)
  • Successful damaging attacks on shields, players, or entities provides shielding benefits to Symmetra. These shields cap out at 275, and will slowly diminish back to her 200 100hp/100shield state. This is in line with other close range attack characters (Doomfist and Reaper come to mind) who are intended to be in the heat of battle.

Photon Beam (Alternate Fire)

  • Faster travel speed on orbs to 30Mps as was described in her introduction post by Developers.

Teleporter

  • Reduction of deployment time
  • Placement under feet of Symmetra, rather than ahead of her (This would allow for reliable relocation of her deployables, as well as reducing the need to step forward to utilize the device OR Increase interaction sphere/deployable teleport radius to allow for a dropped teleporter to teleport the deployables within a certain sphere of influence of the teleporter.

These QoL changes would pretty well much button up the loss of protection of Photon Barrier, and make her into more of a glass cannon she’s designed to be. High risk, High reward.

I see Symmetra in her new role as much more of a contributor to back line damage and distraction, as well as front line shield pounding. Her absolute weakness that cannot be denied is her lack of survivability. She simply does not have a mechanic that allows her to stay alive in the scenario in which she’s intended to be used. She needs some kind of damage mitigation in order to allow her to fulfill her role.

These changes would allow her to do this. She would be able to utilize her teleporter as her ‘panic button’ and as an offensive tool, much like Tracer/Reaper utilize their movement abilities.

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I agree with you here. I would love her to be a soft counter to Barriers and other Shielded Heroes, so as to have her be a sound choice in specific scenarios. Perhaps a self-healing and/or over-shielding like Doomfist when damaging Barriers?

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Ive created another version of Sym that I personally think is better than the live version we have right now

I love all your QoL recommendations. Kudos.

On her own, yes, she’s got no survivability. I play her in a very cautious way, spamming alt-fire and Turrets near my Tanks and Supports, knowing that if I make a gamble offensively, I better make sure I hit Level 3 charge asap. It’s all in whether your Supports deem you worthy of pocketing. A Zen healing orb on my Sym has gotten me POTG more than once. I’m wondering if giving Sym a self-healing mechanic would increase or lessen Supports caring enough about a Sym’s survival? :thinking:

250hp and a shorter deployment time for TP.

If she were to get the proposed shield generation ability, I see her as considerably less dependent on off healing (If she’s successfully using her tools) and using health packs as her main source of healing.

The teleporter is the key to that function, however. She has to be able to get in, do her damage, and then get back out before the enemy team can fully focus her, or she’s dead just like any other character. That’s why a well played Tracer/Doomfist/Reaper work so well, they get in, do their damage, then get back out.

Symmetra is played much the same way with her current kit, but she doesn’t have the sustain/mobility to pull it off.

If they expect her to be used as long range artillery, they shouldn’t have given her the primary she has now, and if they expect her to be a back line disruptor, they should finish her kit to allow her to this. As it stands now, she doesn’t do either one very well at all. Her kit has no synergy to allow for either tactic to work successfully without pocketing currently.

This is where I’ll disagree with you.
I do not want another “swoop in-kill-get out” DPS, and Sym cannot and should not be played like that.

Sym 3.0 not Tracer.
Sym 3.0 is initially a poor man’s Junkrat or Pharah until the end of encounter when she becomes the CQC clean-up DPS: by the end of the team fight, she should be either at Level 3 and melting the enemy OR setting up a Turret killzone around the last few stragglers. Afterwards, Sym should begin re-zoning the area with Turrerts in preparation for the next encounter.

Blizzard should improve this “slow-growth/zoning” aspect of her kit to further differentiate Sym from the other DPS and to move Sym from a troll-pick to a team anchor in the mind’s of OW players.

Thanks for giving me your spin on it. I think that is probably one of the reasons we’re having such difficulty with the new Symmetra. She doesn’t fit in a particular bucket for playstyle.

Everyone has different ideas about how Sym 3.0 should be played, but she doesn’t excel at any of the suggestions that players give. Her entire kit lacks synergy, you cannot deny that.

You state that Symmetra is clean up DPS, how can she do that when she’s dead? She doesn’t have any kind of sustain currently, and the only way she gets any sustain is that she is pocketed. If she’s being pocketed, that means other members of your team are not getting the heals they need to stay standing.

We both agree on one thing: She needs to be refined and given something to allow for sustainability.

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I concur. Sym 3.0 just needs a small nudge in sustainability and I think she’ll be fine. What you mentioned above with the self-healing/over-shield mechanic being fed by damaging Barriers would be PERFECT in my opinion.

This is true, but hey, I’m the best player on the team, so our Mercy BETTER pocket me, ammirite? /s :sweat_smile:

In all seriousness, Lucio and Brig are my favorite Sym healers for the sole reason that NOBODY gives a damn if I as Sym die because Sym is “trash” and I should’ve switched off anyway. There was a Zen I met in solo Q that I killed it with: he yellow orbed me and we pounced repeatedly on every discorded fool we found. ‘Twas lovely.

Facts, homie. Facts.

I didn’t think it was possible, but I play a more passive Sym now with 3.0 than I did with Sym 2.0. The main reason is that I don’t have ANY damage mitigation now, I know exactly how squishy I am. I don’t have that 75hp buffer any longer, and that turns every single fight into one that is intimidating.

I know that I have absolutely no sustainability in a fight, so I try to get myself in a spot where I’m not taking fire, but still contributing with turrets and right click spam. I hope that my right clicks find a target down range, but as it stands with the slower travel time, that is literally hit or miss, regardless of aim.

If I know someone is going to be healing me (IE: We have a healer that doesn’t differentiate on who they’re healing, they just see low health and top it off when possible) I can be much more aggressive. I find I do best with an aggressive playstyle, but typically find myself running back from spawn repeatedly. Considering my mainstay of play is in QP, getting a reliable healer is iffy at best.

If Sym 3.0 had more sustainability, I think she could contribute on a level that the other DPS currently do.

The sad part is, since the rework, I’ve been playing Sym and Soldier most. Sym when I’m getting heals, Soldier when I’m not. With the new change to Soldier, he operates better at range than even Sym does, and with Sym’s lead time on right click, it feels just like Soldiers lead time on his right click. Having that heal is huge too.

Soldier is just as squishy as Symmetra, but because of his self healing mechanic (and yes, its beneficial for the team as well) Soldier will always outlast and do more damage than Symmetra in the long haul.

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There is another option besides sustainability: cool down reduction.

Sym 3.0 would get a solid DPS push with her present kit by reducing the cooldown on her Turrets by 2 seconds. A trio of Turrets every 24 seconds instead 30 seconds would be HUGE in the hands of a crafty player, as 3 Turrets fired from a flank on an unsuspecting Support is damn near an insta-kill. Being able to make such plays more consistently would really help improve her perception in players’ eyes.

Plus, it’d let Sym poke from a safer vantage point as she’ll almost always have a Turret on deck to cover her escape should she need to retreat from that Tracer or Genji.

She needs a summer games / beach skin.

Twilition used FACT SMASH

Its super effective

Btw did you mean TICC rate?

)sorry i had to)

All the cool down reduction in the world doesn’t put hp back on you when you’re being targeted by someone. All you’re doing is insuring mutually assured destruction at that point.

I want to be able to kill something, and stay alive. Not get killed by something, and have a turret finish them off after I’m dead :smiley:

She needs the same thing from the start. She went from support to dps, and her kit stayed support. Her ult got worst, since it still does not do any damage. Her old shield (old e button) was way better from heros like winston, that got in her face. Now you need to clunky use your tele then enter tele.
I do not like the new sym, I had the gold weapon for old sym, and regretting wasting in on her since the rework.
I miss having 6 sentries, sure I do like the range placement.
Her primary weapon lock on was better. It would be OP if they kept it tho.
All in all, give back the old e shield and make ult do damage. Who cares about a dps that has a crappy ult.

I think she needs:

  1. More range on the primary so using it isn’t a suicide mission.
  2. A little more range on the teleporter so it’s more consistent, and critically, isn’t so likely to flick back to very short range unpredictably while setting up.
  3. Bug fixes (teleporters not randomly destroying themselves, teleporters ignoring railings, etc.)
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I think that this is probably the best diplomatic solution. Having her at maximum power for longer and more consistently means that the horridly high tic rate and the ridiculous amount of accuracy needed to maintain medium levels of damage, both become less problematic.

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