Symmetra was nerfed within 9 days for being 4th picked DPS

And I understand all that, but my point is that some other character tick the “unfun” box and are allowed to better than Symmetra despite generally being more about complained about than her. Even Moira, who gets way more complaints.

They reworked her three times and gave her 4 nerfs at a pickrate of less than 1%. I can’t help but feel that’s an indication of them not liking her design and deciding to hold Symmetra back in particular.

Why? I dunno.

But I feel like Symm, Bastion, and Junkrat are simply not allowed to be good at all.

I get that and heroes like doom are frustrating as they have a bit of that but a lot else going for them so Blizz will make the effort more and really fight to get them in the game. I bet Sym mains even look at Sombra and Torb with envy!

Thing is each of those heroes have a reason holding them back, like Sombra’s sucking away at player control.

Sym is all I said in my last post of just stuff that’s kinda annoying and kinda boring to play so shouldn’t be made good but also core to her kit and character so is difficult to change.

Bastion is just making a super strong wall and the game about breaking that, which isn’t that fun for either side (also have you seen bastion mirror matches, they are the dumbest thing in the world and no one wants to see that be anywhere near meta)

Junk has a very RNG projectile where it killing you is largely down to how lucky you got. It needs high dmg to do its job (barrier busting) but there is obviously a limit as it cannot go over 200 dmg (remember stuff like Mercy dmg boost means it has be actually be below that and its basically topped out already) but the dmg also means it has be slow and inaccurate. That’s a really hard problem to fix.

Also to add to your 3 Moira’s thing and niche is she has huge heals and good dmg potential for a healer but nothing else besides an escape. That lack of utility really hurts her but let her dmg or heals go up to compensate and she just goes nuts, leaving her kinda stuck.

Torbs main utility is something that’s totally automatic outside placement (Sym also has this issue) so making it (or the rest of him) good feels cheap for everyone else and bad feels meh for him.

Brig has healing, dmg and tanking potential, if she is good at all of them she is stupid OP, so she has to be kinda bad at all of them which means she sucks in 2-2-2.

Hog just sucks as a tank and the stuff that could make him better without radically changing him all would work better on a DPS and not improve him as a tank. To do that you’d have to change who he is and we like who he is, even if its bad. They could change him to a DPS but tanks are thin on the ground as it is and it would be a big job to change his role.

To round it out (as I’ve talked about Mei and Sombra already) Orisa is just a fairly boring, rinse and repeat playstyle, which many don’t find as fun as her rivals. She has however already got so much utility with her barrier, fortify halt and ult (not to mention her gun is rather good) that they can’t buff any of it without making her too strong, let alone adding more to make her more dynamic.

They can fix this stuff, Dva DM was a big problem that’s largely fixed. I may not like it but Reaper has a good spot now. Old hanzo was trapped as a projectile sniper so why ever pick him over Widow, but they have got him useable now. Even people like Junk and Torb have had their moments. Its difficult and often takes a lot of work and reworks. Plus the whole balance (particularly for DPS as there are so many of them) is a wheel and one gets be on top forever. I wouldn’t lose hope for these heroes but I wouldn’t hold your breath either.

I have lost all hope for Symm, Bastion, and Junkrat. I feel so bad for their mains, who get neglected by balance even by “niche” standards. I at least get to see sick Sombra plays in league sometimes and cheer for my hero. They don’t even get that. Which is a shame because they are capable of doing exciting things too.

I kind of think your allowing your personal opinions about their kit blind you from the balancing pattern of the devs with these guys. Because I’m sure the mains of those heroes would love to be treated like Sombra, Torb, and Hammond have…

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I feel this 100%. I love maining stuff that is a little bit offmeta. Some people don’t want to play stuff that is front main and center in the representation. They’d rather suffer a bit, gitud and master the hero, and make it work a little bit beyond the niche.

Having fringe heroes is part of the rpg/grind engagement. Overwatch isn’t the place to spoonfeed pickrates/wins because a hero has access to MoArDaMaGe.

Sym is fine, people need to L2P, accept her fringe, and wait for OW2 reworks because rn the game is hardly playable and it’s not because of balance issues.

Edit: Frankly the OP is spamming at this point. New thread on the issue more than the 1month forums CoC.

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I’d disagree there. Hammond I just think blizz have handled wonderfully and I’d like to see the others get his treatment but I think he’s the exception, not the norm.

Torb I don’t like as he can feel just really dumb oppressive at times now, not enough to be used constantly but a bit like old Ironclad bastion who just did not die so angered everyone. He’s been done better than the others but is not a great model for success what him needing a turn into reaper button in order to see use a good ult that charges super fast and a turret. That’s a lot to make a niche worthy of OWL and once the novelty wore off not a great one to watch or play. Plus I’d argue he was easier to do that for than the others as the answer of buffing him, not the turret, isn’t exactly rocket science.

Sombra they seem to have decied to balance by aggregate, sometimes shes OP (albeit not often but when she is by god is she OP), sometimes she sucks. Is that really a good fix? We “balance” by letting her dominate for a meta then sit in the garbage for a few months. I don’t want that for Sym or Orisa or even Sombra really. Let alone them all getting it and we just cycle through them.

The truth is these heroes problems are really hard to solve even though some really need a solution and have for ages. It’s not like say Genji where they had 3-4 possible ways they could make him work and the problem is they gave him all of them. That is a luxury these guys just don’t have.

Sombra never dominated anything outside of league and then only a couple of months out of 3 years. I don’t think that’s bad at all, and I think being able to sometimes see play would be nice for those heroes. She never had a high pickrate on ladder but there have been times when her mains could do really well if they knew what they were doing. That seems a good spot to me.

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People who make that argument forget about the 6v6 game, which I’ve played a lot of and Sombra has often had a big impact there, even when she is “bad”. She is a coordination based hero so even if the devs buffed her to the top she likely would never see a jacked pickate as she would still need more co-ordination than solo q offers.

You can be a problem with a low pick rate, for example Goats and peak Sigma never cracked into the top heroes outside GM, Reapers had some serious OP moments where his use started to die off in diamond and Widow gets a lot of complaints dispute generally being mid table.

Hell even winrate can’t always be trusted, just ask Sym who topped the winrate tables for ages. When it comes to the weirder kit heroes things like pickrate tell only a fraction of the story.

Some of Sombra’s best metas have fallen in the mid season break in season 1 (but she did dominate contenders and still see use in stage 2) and the gaps between seasons, where she was used as a strong counter to Brig pre goats, hack-fist has rarely overlapped with OWL and prior to the ult charge changes she was possibly the best thing going vs double barrier too. Even when she is not meta (which I admit is often) she often has held someplace in the counter meta.

Also she was the hero that made the biggest dent in goats (Pharah deserves a mention) and there’s a good chance, though we will never know, she would have finally broken it were it not for 2-2-2. That shows she has some nuts potential seeing as its the most ingrained meta we’ve ever had and she did it while having a negative winrate and low pick rate in both ladder and OWL.

Its fine, everyone should get their moments but she is not the underloved, almost always trash hero many make her out as. Rather she is often right at the cusp, biting at the heels of whats at the top. Furthermore when she does grab hold and make the top she kicks up a huge storm in the game. Yeah its fine but not great and not a model I want to see exported to Sym and other niche/specialist heroes.

It’s because some devs like Genji and most like ez hitscan. They all hate Symm so she’s can’t be played.

Please buff sym in 2020

Accept Symm is not a hero like genji ,she is not cool as genji ,she doens’t have large fanbase as genji, she is not fun to watch and not fun to play like genji.So just think which hero would blizz care about more genji or symm is there anything to even discuss now.

I think she’s cooler and more fun to play.

It’s subjective. So the devs should just give me a fat middle finger for choosing the wrong hero to have as my favorite? You honestly saying that’s okay?


It is subjective but i am talking about the majority of the people here.

That’s why this game is dying, balance around fame and viewership. Not actually addressing the problems of the game.


Ya so they never buffed genji since 2 years and now that he gets buff you put the blame that this is the reason game is dying.

Because he was average and is now broken.

Sym went from crap to average (Genji pre buff) and was obliterated with nerfs for it.


LOL, this very true tho, why buff a character that is already balanced and make it more broken


Then we obviously should have just made a game with only cool cyborg ninjas if they’re the only ones deserving of fans and good gameplay. :roll_eyes:

But since we have a game with far more characters than that, devs have a duty to balance this game for pvp purposes and playability, lest the game crumbles because all you can find is cyborg ninjas playing the game anymore.

The variety of characters with their designs, personalities, gameplay, lore and accessibility is what made overwatch such a great success. Tossing all that out for “we only want to watch cool cyborg ninjas” plus greed goes against the core of overwatch and what drew majority of the playerbase in in the first place.

They will lose those players, HAVE lost a lot of those players, with their current balance decisions.

Garbage balance decisions IS A BIG REASON WHY this game is dying. Blizzard has managed to hook WoW players for decades now, even rejuvenated the playerbase with WoW Classic and they had another major franchise in their hands to do the exact same thing. But they keep messing up big time.


Can you please stop saying this? Saying this wont make the aim elitists like you or campaign for Sym TP reverts, and I dont think you are as stupid to actually think that they ‘‘effectively reverted her’’ when current Sym has literally none of the strengths that Sym 2.0 had.

And shes not. Just like genji over the last two years, there are people who still play her at an insanely high level. Steevo for example, and BastionMain’s duo partner, Dyslexia, is always having insane sym plays. There are other ladder sym players I run into all the time at high masters/low gm levels.

Don’t get me wrong, with the brig armor nerfs, and genji buffs, I think it was a bit much, but to call her “trash” when almost nobody has wanted to experiment with her potential is something I would expect from an AI.

Sym’s tp and movement resistance from her turrets are insane when utilized correctly, just because your elo is bad with her, doesn’t mean she is a bad hero.

Thats what the genji buff did, made it so every elo could use the hero, and thats an issue. Not every rank should be able to use the same heroes to the same effect, because then what is the point of a ranked ladder is everyone is going to yield the same results?

Look at widow, one of the most oppressive heroes in the game because she can one shot half the roster, yet, you can use her in lower elos for sheer pressure alone to force enemies in a certain direction just because of the fear of the one shot, yet in masters and gm, there are almost no widows right now because the meta favors double shield, and team coordination is in play.

Does this mean we should change widow so she can shoot through shields because the top of the ladder isn’t using her, and the lower levels can?

Absolutely not.

Not every hero is made for every elo.

Thats why sym got nerfed so much quicker, because typically sym doesn’t require as much skill as genji, and genji was out for 2 years. At the same time though, genji tone backs would be nice, and seeing people pick up sym more to find out her true potential as a hero would also be nice.

get good and play sym at the top level and prove me wrong.

Oh please. Genji’s kit is loaded with crutches and escapes and mobility and Sym has none. She’s way easier to punish and if you play her stupidly, you’re toast.