While, all her abilities in the past were fun to use, they just went against the design of how the game is played with every other hero, making the uptime of using her kit & engaging in team battles very low, compared to every other hero in the game.
A full rework is needed, that isn’t just a rotation of which ability is attached to which keybind.
Next thing we know, the devs might end up making Sym’s turrets shoot her right click orbs & her right click shoots out moving turrets that beam down enemies as they float by, similar to her 2.0 barrier & Moira orb.
She doesn’t need any of these half baked abilities that are rooted to her original Support concept, from a time when Overwatch was at the slowest pace, where every hero moved & attack animations were very slow.
Sym needs brand new abilities, a similar level of rework to Orisa, where, almost the entire kit is replaced.
Not bad at all. I feel like people are too deadset on making Sym a support again, but I like the idea of a support who can give shields and not just heal. People are similarly too focused on supports healing, and I think that greatly limits how supports can support.
Also, I want to personally thank you for actually doing work on this. The skill creation/editing, playtesting and the like. Its way better than just saying “Bap got a buff and I think he shouldn’t, therefore remove his IF, half his damage and remove his exo boots!”.
I really don’t think the latter two is a problem. Heroes that work better under certain circumstances can be fine; as the game evolves, your options change and heroes who usually suck are now the best for the situation.
Is there a reason for every hero to be playable 100% of the time? Its a nice idea, but is it even possible? Sombra hard counters Reinhardt, so should Rein be buffed to ensure he can be played against her anyway?
The issue here isnt whatever her utility is enough to pick her over an actual healer.
The issue here is whatever or not she is worth being a utility bot with no way to defend herself and terrible damage for her awful range.
She is effectively just a bunch of team utility that not only do NOTHING to help her do anything else other than being a passive shield/utility slave to her team, but wont let her survive any kind of attempt on her life.
It is in a game where heroes who are situational are purely because they are underpowered or gimmicky.
Even in Sym’s best maps in OW2 there is no reason to pick her over a functional DPS.
Never in this game will everyone be situational, thus there is no point on it being used as an excuse to keep heroes weak.
You can make Sym an anti-flanker hero who has temporal ‘burst’ combat utility and counters mobility by giving her a grounded debuff somewhere in her kit, but yes, this design being a pre-combat utility bot like she is right now is simply obsolete.
What this rework and everyone that thinks its good fail to understand is that the era of the heal/utility bot is over. If actual supports, who are mostly fine in OW1, had to be buffed in OW2 because they cant defend themselves… well this is just free flanker food.
Regardless of whatever you keep Sym a dps or shoehorn her into support, you need to make a functional hero that can defend themselves (and do damage when healing is not needed if you force her into support) anyways. Agency over utility.
This rework is not that. This rework makes Sym a farmeable.
My worst fear is the devs are also clueless as to what to do with her.
I know she has a zarya bubble in the comics, and adding that could make her a good hero. Meta even. A support that can bubble people would be really, really good. It’s just that what will it cost to do that? Plus we already have zarya.
Idk. I’m torn between keeping her unique while also wanting her to be viable - or honestly just a decent hero that isn’t niche and can function on all game modes.
I feel like she needs another rework but she needs to be made a more generic hero to function. Idk how I feel about that.
Supports shouldn’t just be about healing. Just because she’d have much less healing than other supports, doesn’t make this version a bad hero. Zen’s never not been a bad pick, and he only has 30hp/s and can only heal one ally at a time. This version of Sym has healing on the Shield decay, which she can give to every ally every 4 seconds. That’s far more healing than Zen
I’d be okay with sym being a non healing support if she can boost hp and provide protection. You sacrifice healing for a hero that provides buffs, but those buffs have to be good enough to not have heals.
If sym becomes support I want her on Ana levels of strong.
The issue is… this Sym doesnt provide anything that isnt minimal healing (Zen still has Trans) and utility. And well, that doesnt make a functional hero.
If a support isnt healing, they should be doing dps (or boosting if Mercy). This is basic support gameplay.
This, and basically every Sym support rework, completely ignore this fact.
In your example, Zen adds A LOT of damage, his and increasing his team’s. This Sym has nerfed damage, which is a complete joke already, and doesnt bring anything worth using her over… well. Anyone.
Idk they nerfed most of the utility DPS in ow2 like mei and Sombra. So they might just move her to support if they want to buff her utility. I’d personally would like her to perform better as a dps. I think having some form of self protection as a close range hero could go a long way. Or they could make her a ranged hero instead.
I feel like with sym all possibilities are up in the air which is both good and bad
I’m curious what the devs are planning with her. They did acknowledge her current struggles so we’ll see
Sombra keeps most of her utility and in fact was far better on non-pros matches.
Mei wasnt nerfed because ‘‘utility DPS’’ she was nerfed because not only seagull clowned on the devs’ goldie butts with her but also she got her CC removed with barely any real compensation. And the devs acknowledged this issue.
Sym has neither hard CC nor hack so there is literally no point to this argument, really.
Supports arent defined by utility and have never been and in fact you cant base a hero around utility first and everything else second or else you end up with Sym 3.0 the taxibot.
That is ultimate form of your so called utility non-healing support. A gimmick unable to compete in any role.
In the end… it doesnt matter if you move her to support. If you create a support hero who cant deal damage in some way when not healing… well, thats just a fragile, nonviable heal/utility bot.
Really liked TTraw’s concept, and I think you’ve done a phenomenal job adapting it!
My main note is that I think her 2.0 TP is too much on cooldown. Even though 3.0 TP has its own problems, I think it’d still fit better. Maybe combine Shield Gen & TP together, so placing the TP can get value on its own?
Regardless, love the concept and love the effort! Really great job! I’m not sure how it’d adapt into OW2, but this is exactly the kind of direction I hope the devs consider for any future Support-Sym experiments.
There’s a big difference between “applicable just about everywhere and only need to be concerned about certain picks” vs “straight up hardly applicable inherently from the design before we even into account counters or maps” esp when making a hero incapable of getting uptime themselves does lead to just about everyone being a counter as everyone can kite or out poke or out duel her.
What I described before wasn’t even giving any acknowledgement of whether she’d even be good on defense. Only that where she can possibly even applicable is inherently limited.
Again, this is even before we consider specific favorability or unfavorability in maps, comps and matchups.
This concept combined with healing turrets (ones that actually target correctly) would actually be pretty decent imo. Also with the speed of OW2 being faster, I would probably prefer faster orbs rather than slower ones. Biggest issue I see would be teleporter. It’s just not a very engaging ability to use vs the live teleporter. I’d rather teleporter be used for movement rather than a faster respawn. Personally, I’d make teleporter an ability for only Sym to use so it could be on a low cooldown and have a faster build speed so it could be utilized for mind games and evasion.
Agree. But due to workshop limitations that’s how it is. But I already mentioned this in the known issues.
No turrets get removed.
Yes.
I made this before I got to play on the beta.
That’s why I added this last minute.
Zen is…a different hero.
I didn’t. They work differently.
Not really. There is still the respawn delay and tp can be destroyed. It can be a huge waste of your cooldowns.
Which is the point. Instant support value without the need to charge the utlimate.
And give her the same reasons why Sym 2.0 was bad? No. Sym 2.0 didn’t work because her support value was on her ultimate. She needs it on her base kit to work.
How?
Every support ability in her kit has enough range.
By just using her long range abilities? Did you even read the post? Photon shields, tp, and sg all have 20 meters range and it could be increased easily.
Sym is a utility hero. I don’t see the problem here.
It’s not I think it has to be this way but Sym is a builder hero so only having 1 or two 2 buildable objects to place is boring. I just went with her theming.
In terms of balancing the kit and playtesting it I did almost nothing. Bots aren’t good for that. I just used an old concept and put it into workshop with very little changes.
I don’t think so. It’s 60 HP at max. If the shields get damaged away before triggering the heal it heals nothing. So pure healing is even lower than Zen.
But on the other hand she can “heal” through adding additional health. And the devs already confirmed a new “damage migated” stat for OW2 which would be perfect for this Sym.
She doesn’t need to disengage. TP and SG can be placed from range and reduced shield aura makes it impossible to hide it far away. And theiy’re abilities so them getting destroyed is not a big deal. Just drop it somwhere near and be fine.
