I think a lot of her balance philosophy comes from the notion of the “value” of her TP being a high risk high reward type ability, but it requires team coordination to pull off effectively, where as no other DPS hero has so much of a team reliance like Symm in that way. She can’t directly benefit from her own ability like any other DPS could being that she needs to either charge her attacks or preemptively set up a carwash trap or TP bomb.
Also her kit has very high cool downs for such a low DPS output, coupled with the fact that most utility abilities in the game are support oriented makes her stand out even more. Looking at raw numbers, she actually has a lower TTK than some supports like Moira and technically even mercy if you get enough head shots.
I almost feel like putting her 3.0 kit on support and allowing orbs to heal team mates and still damage enemies (Similar to Ana’s nade and primary) or let her choose between a damage and healing turrets like Moira orbs would fit in OW2 better than her current state.
She does too much of everything and can’t consistently perform as a DPS like other heros. Also having low pick/ win rate as consistently as she does really points out that she struggles in her current state. I really hope they’d either just adjust her to support or actually commit to DPS Symm and give her a rework because she’s a scrambled mess and her build and kit depreciates more and more with how the newer heros are made and how with their struggle to nail down passives.
The longer she remains as is the more she feels like she belongs in a different game entirely and that’s unfortunate being that almost every other OG OW hero that the game launched with gets constant tweaks and attention (Other then rein I guess but we’ll have to see how he does with the tank buffs).
Well, Symm’s main problem is that she’s a close range character, that sucks at getting to close range, if their opponent is paying attention to them.
She’s too easy to kite.
An easy way to fix that would be to give her either longer beam range, or more movement speed while at lower charge levels.
Yep exactly, she’s a close range hero that…gets punished for playing close range…to the point where Sym players use orbs as her primary form of fire and beam for when people get close/you push or when you TP backline (only if you are at full charge as well).
She needs more HP, she felt viable before they reverted her HP buff. I don’t get why EVERY other close range hero gets extra HP and then Sym has to stay at the base squishy health. It is biased and negligent, which truly shows how the devs feel about her.
Buff her health, not her beam, her beam is fine she just can’t DO anything with it cause she dies too quickly. Buff her orb damage, no reason why she shouldn’t be rewarded for hitting consecutive orbs on the most predictable and telegraphed projectile in the game, it should have higher dmg if a Sym is actually good at hitting them (esp if we have projectiles that deal more damage and have a higher rate of fire like Phar/Junk).
Yep, she was good with Mauga due to the buffed overdrive or whatever it was called which allowed her to actually be a threat . More HP is simply better for her.
Like all of her buffs aside she still sucked against certain comps she was bad into and did better into comps she was good into, it literally just made a her bit better into the things she countered and that was it. She worked well in tandem with Mauga, she shouldn’t have gotten nerfed back to hell because of him.
She was simply just…viable without Mauga, and people just confuse Sym being viable and correlate it to her being instantly OP.
The sentry one seems like just a niche nerf to me and isn’t needed, if you want to nerf them then just nerf them. But sentry bombs are a high cost strat to even do in the first place so I don’t think any nerfs are needed, 30 second CD to get all 3 turrets back and now you are down TP for 12 seconds if they decide to push you. TP bombs are a big commitment and don’t even work a lot of the time now.
I honestly wouldn’t even mind a TP start CD when a match starts just to destroy proplayers using her as a taxi and nothing else. Maybe like a 6-7 CD instead of 10 but yeah.
I am petty, she is not a taxi, give her the CD just to destroy her taxi playstyle in proplay lol.
I’d argue that it’s relevant for the bottom third of the playerbase.
Keeping in mind, the reason Bastion was kept bad for so long, was because of his lower ELO pubstomping.
Pretty much, I figure that keeps her out of “Overpowered in OWCS” talks, and also just keys up the “well she got a nerf, now what buff does she get” conversation.
If they could add something to make her TTK relatively the same (or better?) for backline TP’s then I truly wouldn’t mind, she just has to rely on them for extra dmg a lot of times which I do not like. But like realistically I don’t see that sort of change being something added, it’s just too niche of a change for her since she can TP every deployable in the game. That’s just how I see it “why only one sentry?”.
I would LOVE if she didn’t have to rely on the turrets for the extra DMG for TP bombs. I would just made turrets into a form of spying utility, completely remove the damage from them (keep soft CC maybe). Like completely rework them as an ability and move all of the damage into her kit or into a form of passive that lets Sym deal more dmg due to a certain interaction with the turrets. ( I am completely brainstorming here)
You could make it so turrets detect enemies still and apply a “detection” stat to the player, then remove the damage. Make it so enemies being targeted by turrets take increased damage by your beam/orbs. This could be such a cool way to set up and react to your sentries being set off by flankers and it opens up possibilities for long range kills to an extent (that being, ways to TP sentries and shooting at range). Someone sets off the turret, then they are affected by turret passive (which could stack to help deal more damage), then Sym can shoot orbs to deal a higher amount of damage. This way it includes a factor of needing mechanical skill to follow up on enemies affected by the turret passive. This is just an example, but like there are SO many things like this they could do to make it better for both low and high rank players.
I personally do not care for her turrets anymore and would like another ability in place of it, but it is a core aspect of her hero like rez is to Mercy. So people hate this opinion, but it is truly holding her back and I think turrets need a major rework/overhaul.
They are not ‘’‘‘holding her back’’‘’'. In fact, the stronger they are, the stronger Sym is. Because they are the most flexible tool she has in her entire kit. In fact, every time they get nerfed, Sym gets worse.
The one single thing holding her back and constantly gets her nerfed when used in pro-play is team TP.
Remember back when turrets used to have a slow mechanic, that would slow you to a danged near crawl unless you killed it?
Sure, it only tickled unless there were multiple turrets hitting you, but being able to reliably slow an enemy made it easier to track them with your beam.
They took the slow away, they took the damage away, and now we’re just left with an empty shell of what Symmetra used to be.
It’s like having a Swiss Army Knife, but instead of lots of different tools, all you get are sporks.
She also has a HUGE hitbox. Her critbox and her legs are enormous and she’s much easier to kill now even with more health because of the overall bullet size increase.
This is also one of the reasons Sym’s viability has gone down. Tanks (especially barrier tanks, which there were 4 of in OW1 and typically at least 1 per match) were Sym’s main source of beam charge. It’s more difficult to get it against smaller characters because it requires a sustained hit for the charge level to increase. Shields are also somewhat irrelevant in 2. Tanks pretty much all got damage increases to go with the HP buff so even match-ups that used to be in her favor, like against Winston, are now solidly against her because she simply can’t survive long enough to exert her tier-3 beam damage against them.
5 years ago, Symmetra’s problem was her charge-up and cast times to do anything really meaningful that another hero could instantly do. Today, Sym’s biggest problem is largely still that her kit requires too many wind-ups and cast times except now she also deals 20 less damage on her secondary and her turrets also deal less damage. Being a Symmetra player is an exercise in frustration because any time she gets a meaningful buff, they walk it back or it’s accompanied with 12 compensation nerfs for one tiny thing. Her turrets got wallhacks and lost a huge amount of damage. Her orbs got more speed and lost 30 damage which they later buffed to back up to 100 and then cut her hp because she could two-tap. THEN THEY REMOVED HER ABILITY TO TWO-TAP AND DIDN’T GIVE HER HP BACK!!!
Symmetra’s balance history is insane y’all and I always hope it will get better but it never does lol
More like having a swiss army knife, but instead of lots of different tools, you get 7 tools made of wet tissue paper, and a magnum that can only be shot by someone else.