Symmetra in overwatch

General Discussion
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The private profiles were a direct result of forum and community outcry. There was a distinct and prominent pattern of who was asking for it.

That is evidence enough. Deny it if you wish. I understand why you don’t like it. Hurts your stance but this is well known fact.

This assumes that all part of the population follow the same behaviors. That all hero mains statistically stay public at equal rates.

We know that sym mains were one of the major proponents of private profiles. It is not hard to conclude that they would choose to be private in larger numbers. Enough to throw the pickrate numbers off balance.

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I like throwing them high up on maps that favor Pharah. Love surprising them that way.

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Aww yeah I did do that I actually liked fighting phara as sym 2.0 shield gen shut her down and the turrets made it impossible for her to get work done. And photon barrier into her ult was so funny

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Winston and Pharah were the “f u Sym” back in the day. Winston is not anymore, but Pharah still is a bit.

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I remember every time a new map came out, I would spend hours playing on custom with a friend, just finding spots to place shield gen, TP, turrets, and long sightlines to spam orbs from a safe spot.

That part of enjoying studying the character is something I lost on the rework, and never came back. There are still places in Rialto, Busan, Paris and Havana that I have never touched simply because I have no interest in comb the map for hidden spots anymore.

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No no no lol winston was the worst pick against old sym shield gen hard countered winston he would need an extra second to kill anyone effectively making him a useless pick. Sure he was good at taking out turrets but he had so little value other than that.

That was one of the biggest community misconceptions about sym 2.0

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i just wish she had 100 HP / 150 Shield

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Yeah I had long car rides every day where I spent the time theory crafting for 2.0 that was so much fun. It was the one character where it felt like I had to create my own playstyle from scratch there wasn’t any guides for sym it was so interesting

It was cool making the ideas and then when I got home I got to try em out and add them to my arsenal

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Pharah still is a big FU for many heroes, not only Sym. But I disagree on Winston.

Winston was good for clearing turrets that were placed too close together. Something that good Sym players would rarely do because any AoE attack would clear them all at once. And because Winston is much more complicated to extract value for an unexperienced Winston players (compared to, eg, Reinhardt), when someone panic swapped into Winston to “counter Symmetra”, they would usually jump straight into my turret nest, place his shield, spin around to clear them, and die from focus fire from my team right after.

I lost a bunch of turrets (usually not even all of them, if I scattered them right), and the enemy team lost their main tank. We win the teamfight, and I replace the turrets.

It would also allow me to preemptively tell my team for someone to go Hog because they would swap to Winston within a minute. Hog eat moon animals for breakfast. It was incredibly predictable.

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Yeah I found shield gen completely trashed even good winston players so at the start of the match your at a disadvantage but later that advantage switches to your favor. And when they have winston you just spread the turrets to remove even more of his value

He was the easiest character to play around for sym

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If 88% of every hero’s mains have private profiles, then it doesn’t matter about Sym specifically because every hero has that and so they all have similar sample sizes. :slight_smile:

But the users on forums and other platforms like reddit are a vocal minority, with a lot of them going there to complain while those who are indifferent or are fine with the game’s state will just carry on playing the game.

So like, it’s not surprising the forums were filled with people who were complaining about the lack of private profiles.

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You… are kidding me right. Winston would shut down Sym most of the time. Him Mei Pharah were the best at clearing turrets, yes, but Winston was NEVER and will never be a bad pick against Symmetra. There are videos of showing that once he got the beam going on Sym, she was done unless she got help from healers. There are videos that show that the only way to keep Sym alive against Winston was to be pocketed by Mercy(or any other healer). She never won when she was damage boosted by Mercy(dont know about Ana honestly), she didnt win when she has SG up. Winston being a counter is a pretty common thing among Sym 2.0 players, and most pro players would say the same thing.

Also her gun was fairly inconsistent with barriers. Everytime I tried to focus him, my gun went straight to the barrier.Also her gun was 7m, which means that she would have to fight him while being damaged

Honestly I dont want to be a d!ck, but I dont want to argue on a fact and something that is known by most players, so I will step away from this conersation and mute the thread.

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Well maybe I was just great at the matchup but I never had any difficulty dealing with Winston. Your not alone when your fighting him. I usually played near supports (to protect them) so if winston did dive while shield gen was up he would lose the matchup hard.

Shield gen just effectively made Winston’s need an entire second for any kill. That’s a lot of time for any support to save your ally or let em get to safety. Winston was not a good pick

Just because the community said he was a good pick doesn’t mean he actually was. And the community couldn’t have been farther from the truth when it came to the winston sym matchup

Well crap I just read the last line wow. Wasn’t expecting that. Just because I had a different opinion to him. No wonder there were so many misconceptions about sym

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If you think balance on PC and console is the same and that’s a fact I have honestly nothing to tell you. The evidence to the contrary is so overwhelmingly staggering that it’s the equivalent of claiming the Earth is flat.

Again, the data is there for you to see.

The development updates and posts on the forums are also there to see.

Again, taken out of context. Symmetra has always had the highest win-rate in the game. In fact, it used to be around 68-70%. It has dropped more than 10% since then and the pick-rate has also dropped. Indicating quite obviously the rework has failed on multiple accounts.

Again, there’s nothing odd about it. You must be new or not pay attention to Symmetra and you definitely don’t play her because you would know that Symmetra has had the highest win-rate in the game since inception.

That’s quite objectively and demonstrably not true if you take even a rudimentary look at Overbuff’s data.

Winston still absolutely destroys Symmetra and 90% of the roster does the same still.

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What exactly then do you mean by “balance”?
Because mercy heals 50hps no matter what platform. That’s what I’m talking about. What do you mean?

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What if sym was too powerful before?

Her niche was incredibly desirable. Having a winrate in the 60s meant she contributed incredible amounts of value where she was used.

I considered shield gen a brokenly powerful ult. I think it needed a maximum number of shields it could provide so like 600 hp in total

I loved old sym but that is an interesting question to think about. A hero managed to be incredibly powerful yet the community deemed them a throw pick. I don’t think we will ever have anything like that again. Just an incredibly unique situation for such a unique character lol

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Good thing that Symmetra is supposed to play among her team, while Winston is supposed to dive into the enemy team.

Because, seriously, that’s the factor you forgot. Sym will have support of her team when Winston jump into her. Even a measly Lúcio aura was enough to make her beam win the numbers game against Winston tesla. And that’s not even counting your entire team shooting at the giant gorilla that is in the middle of the whole team.

If your Symmetra is alone when a Winston catch you, then you was entirely out of position, or you are being cleaned up after your team just lost the teamfight.

My proposition at the time was to make Shield Gen constantly reduce your own ult meter, so that if you are keeping the damage up, the ult can stay indefinitely, but if you die or the enemy team simply wait long enough, it would drain up and expire.

Destroying it would still be an option, if the enemy team wishes, and would make Sym ult meter drops to zero instantly.

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You need to pick a side on this as your response is “vocal minority” but “ small samples matter”.

These are in conflict.

However, if only 2% of all sym mains choose public compared to 12% average for others their results will be skewed.

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No, they are not. Because they are two whole different things.

Vocal Minority and Silent Majority is the affirmation that the vast majority of satisfied customers will not go out of their way to praise the goods they are enjoying, while the unsatisfied consumers will almost always express their feelings. Sometimes to the provider, sometimes as negative advertisement.

Sample sizes is a statistical data point. The larger your sample size, the more accurate your data reflects reality. However, above a certain number, you get a close enough image to reality that increasing the sample size will not affect your outcomes that much. So, you need to understand the scope of what you are studying, and then do your best to not bias the sample pool.

We all know since the start that Overbuff (and other similar websites) have a datapool biased towards the higher ranks, because the data collected need to be voluntary, and mid to low rank players don’t know or don’t care about inputing their data into a 3rd party website.

We also know that private profiles made Overbuff sample size smaller.

We do not know if the private profiles pertain to a specific group of player or now. So unless Blizzard or even Overbuff itself send us information about that, the reasonable thing to do is assume the private profiles are on the same distribution as the whole datapool.

So the only question is if Overbuff datapool is still big enough to be considered relevant. I’m inclined to believe that it does, mostly because that the only datapool we have. But if you believe that it’s datapool is not big enough, then just disregard everything involving it, because the well has been poisoned a year ago, and it will not get better, unless Blizzard finally release a public API for Overwatch.

(Which is a good request, and I think more people should support it)

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Are you saying that any hero should have a realistic 69% winrate? That’s ludicrous. The reason her winrate was skewed was because she was a super situational pick on point A of a few maps 2CP maps. Basically, you either full held on A, or switched off for point B, which means you either get a loss in her statistics or nothing at all, because the way Overwatch works, you don’t get a loss on the statistics of a hero that you switched off early enough.

If she had an actual 69% winrate, she’d be completely broken and everyone would be going insane over it. Even at times when we had a hero that was significantly overpowered (like on-release Brigitte), their winrate was always <60%.

You’re also wrong on her pickrate, it was lower than it is now, according to all the data I can find from the time. If you got any evidence to the contrary I’d love to see it.

No, her pickrate went up, and her winrate is very high but balanced.

And yet I can make her work in masters on both attack and defense and there’s multiple top 500 Symmetra one tricks / mains :man_shrugging: Funny how that works.

I’m not saying she couldn’t use a few more buffs, but she’s miles ahead of what she used to be.