This is the no-true-scotsman logical fallacy. Saying nobody is a true X unless they Y
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Are you talking about Brig? Or genji? or wall riding lucio? Of a valking mercy? Or Mei? Or insert almost every hero. The point is any hero is titling in the right hands. The sym rework is just community bullying.
Good thing that’s just an opinion then I guess lol
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I’ve backed off this since my original post. I wrote it right after reading the imminence of the rework. I was irritated. If I could rewrite my original post, it would be about the destruction of a hero.
Fair enough. Yes the changes were not acceptable as they clearly were not enough. Thus the reason for the changes they are making.
Far to useful.
Consider this. Her energy ball does 125 damage at max charge. This if five more damage then that of a direct hit by Pharah. It currently is half the fire rate.
Increasing the fire rate even by half a second is way to powerful for a shield piercing ability. There are zero other shield piercing abilities with high overall DPS for a reason.
Increasing the speed of the projectile overall while maintaining shield piercing is ALSO a problem because with any speed increase the greater the accuracy becomes.
Junkrat’s projectile speed is 17ms and energy orb is 10. There is very little room already between the two. Give her piercing AND an increased fire rate and she becomes to powerful if she retains her shield piercing.
But its also completely powerful if impossible or way to difficult find. 75 shields or bring back SIX players is to powerful an ability to be hard to find. It is going to much better as an ability with mid fight application then a poor mans hide and rez.
I don’t want to skip over the other parts of what you said, but this one doesn’t make sense to me. Junk’s projectiles and sym’s secondary cannot really be compared because of the trajectory differences.
Again, not equivalent. But that has more to do with the ambiguous nature of her role.
Trajectory does not matter when considering the application of the projectile both have application against barrier’s. One has the goal of shredding the barrier down. Where as the other has the goal of piercing the barrier and weakening as many targets as possible.
So let’s make some changes to Junkrat projectile for the sake of argument. Imagine if Junkrat could shoot his grenades in a straight line and they could pierce barriers but we removed the AOE explosive in exchange for piercing enemies as well.
This is functionally what you are requesting. You want a faster fire rate, faster projectile speed, but also want to keep the damage AND the piercing mechanic.
Something has to give. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
But this is an oversimplification of the ability. Other than projectiles, the two literally have nothing in common. Junk is a mobile, front line hero. His projectiles are used for shield busting, but they bounce off walls and have splash damage. He creates or denies space. He can position himself to do these things.
Sym is about as back line as you get. Her projectile speed is mitigated further by her positioning. She can pierce shields, but odds of hitting anyone outside of a hard choke point is minimal (with her secondary). So not only does her projectile have to travel a further distance, it does not bounce or provide splash damage.
And just for the sake of this discussion, I am pretty sure they are speeding up her secondary movement speed.
You called?
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Its not when you are asking for changes that bring symmetra closer in line with Junkrat. A hero that pierces barriers, does 125 per barrier AND person hit, with similar projectile speed to that of Junkrat, a larger projectile then that of Junkrat, a increased fire rate.
You are dismissing how ridiculously overpowered and unfair this kind of projectile would be all because you think I am straight up comparing the two when in fact I am using Junkrat as an EXAMPLE only.
You are using current context comparisons. As in what she can do now verses what Junkrat can do now. Which is NOT the debate we are having. We are having a debate based on the changes you proposed she NEEDS and as such I am addressing what those changes would result in.
If she received increased projectile speed and fire rate her
would no longer be the case as it would be FASTER and occur more OFTEN. Thus meaning she could spam with impunity. Only having to worry about D.va and Genji eating/deflecting them. Her current projectile speed and charge time makes the projectiles ability to pierce enemies and barriers fair because the speed and infrequency of the projectile make them easy enough to avoid.
Remove those weakness’s without removing other strength’s and you have an inherently unfair and unbalanced ability.
But just like I was saying, they are removing piercing as a counter balance.
I didn’t realize this. Just delete her from the game. She is useless without piercing secondary.
That’s cool, cuz I loved TLJ.
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I think you over value that particular function.
Her secondary is weak overall and only niche which means it has low overall value. It also has zero application in combat.
Her new secondary will be an explosive that moves at 30m (pharah’s move at 35 for reference) and charge rate of 1 second instead of 2 (same fire rate as Pharah). This will give her a secondary that she use on a choke but also allow her to fight at mid range.
Her barrier fighting mechanic is moving to her primary which will replenish ammo when she is hitting one. This will allow her to get consistent ramp up. Granted piercing is going away but her ability to fight barriers is actually going up.
Wow, people really love to complain about TLJ
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As a Star Wars fan and someone who hated TLJ, I think that this argument is dumb as hell. If you liked TLJ you’re as much a Star Wars fan as the ones who hated it. Same could be said about the Sym rework.
However unlike TLJ which at its core was a definitive Star Wars film despite radical differences in reception, Sym is not the face nor the core of OW nor has she ever been. Sym is a fun albeit overly flawed and weak hero. You can’t force anyone to accept her as she is, She needs to be rebuilt.
People (Sym mains) have called on Bliz to do something about her for years, quoting her low pick rate, toxicity towards her in higher ranks, and kit that just can’t find a place in the meta. While they were hoping for a quick fix or simple change or even an official word from Blizzard to simply accept them, it simply could not be done. Again, Sym’s rework is necessary if the toxicity, cohesiveness and character of Sym is to be resolved, they tried a change up and rework before and it didn’t do much among countless internal tests I could imagine.
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Well that is not what I was trying to do. I wanted to highlight the usefulness of a shield piercing secondary fire, but speeding up the movement to make it more useful in a fight. I guess it would make sense to speed the movement until it hits a shield, then it slows to give a chance for those using the shield to move.
The speed increase would be for fights only. That is where is would be most useful.
Removing the piercing is a big deal to me. I think it is the strongest part of her kit, which by community standards is pretty weak. The shield busters in the game don’t do enough damage to remove an Orisa shield before she can put another down. This is why Pirate Ship is so useful even at the top ranks. The difference being in plat and below, if you run pirate ship, I can go Sym and force your Bastion to move as long as I get a little protection from my team.
Yeah that her lmb gives her ammo against shield break but not her rmb is really weird, since if you’re close enough to a barrier that you can hit it with sym’s lmb you’re likely about to get bursted hard, which makes barriers the last thing you should be targeting.
This is just so beyond moronic lol. ‘Oh no, someone has a different opinion than me. That means they must not be true fans of insert any topic here’. Just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them any less of a fan. You clearly do not understand the correlation between the two.
Yeah the only real connection between the movie and rework is OP made up their mind about both way before they were released, lol.
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How DARE you! You are not a true fan and are now permanently banned from thinking about Star Wars ever again, as per OP’s rule.
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