The pros got decent value out of Sym in a meta which heavily favoured Sym due to the team comp revolving around 2 barriers. And, the issue people had with the nerf, was that Sym was performing well (not overperforming) in her intended niche and yet received big nerfs almost immediately.
4 Likes
I wouldn’t say bad but under performing.
She doesn’t need much to be “good.”
Only one change will negate the confusion amongst the Symmetra community:
Faster Orbs.
Don’t need to worry about lack of mobility, Survivability at close range and how weak/long windup the beam problems bring up if you can consistently pelt the target at a distance.
Just revert Orb damage and speed them up to match other projectiles and most Symmetra mains that don’t want a 2.0 revert or anything close to that will shut up.
3 Likes
Thats how team games work. And heroes who are overly independent usually only synergies with a few Heroes (IE, Widow doesn’t really have any combos, Genji only really combos with Zarya and Ana etc…)
No because I use them as burst damage for close targets or spam for farther away shields.
No because her primary is actually good you just have to get to creative angels to charge it, then it melts VERY fast.
No she’s simply team reliant which isn’t a bad thing if you get a team who knows how to play with you.
Play other DPS or do the math. By the time Sym gets primary full charge or hits with alt fire her DPS counters:
Hanzo
Soldier
Widow
Ashe
Mcree
Tracer
can all kill her 3 times as fast as they shoot faster, crit and have just as high or higher damaging ability or alt fire tool.
Also all of her counters got buffed and better. Launch Soldier melted Sym when he did his lowest dmg. Now he does 20 with faster CD on helix.
She’s weak because as a dmg hero she is super slow in putting out death compared to the rest in her group and her ult doesn’t kill.
The thing she can do is teleport. But it’s hard to coordinate with random people, loud, easier to destroy with dmg creep, and like the rest of her kit slow with a long CD if it doesn’t work.
I love Sym. Main’d her at launch got her a golden weapon despite no victory pose or highlight to show for it.
She’s barely viable and like Bastion too many heroes counter her including the upcoming new hero.
Every other hero in her category brings better dmg, utility, CD, ult, synergies, actually counters, or sustainability that she lacks.
She’s good for qp. Outside of that you have to hope the team has zero Sym counterplay knowledge or poor aim.
7 Likes
The team needs to actually see and use the teleporter, not that common in pub games. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call her TP “mobility”, with its long setup and cooldown.
Her ult is a bit situational too, I could name a few I’d rather have. Not saying it’s bad though.
But yeah, her gun and sentries are indeed strong and get a lot of undue ridicule imo.
except you can’t get in “close” to contribute as much as many other heroes who can from further away who’d also do more from there against shields anyways. this being due to her incoherent mix.
which you can no longer get due to infinite tp and again her incoherent mix.
it is a bad thing and that’s not how team games should work. Synergy != dependence.
if hero A can get X value but is gatekept by the decisions of 5 random teammates and hero B can get X value or more based on their own individual input, whose more efficient and better? B of course. i.e. A is bad.
and heroes being individually capable of contributing value doesn’t mean no teamwork. it’s still a 6v6 and the team with good teamwork will still do better than one that won’t assuming good balance + no smurfs. just look at paladins. all characters there are vastly more independent yet teamwork still matters a lot. ult combos still matter, peeling matters, etc.
1 Like
This pretty much sums it up. Only place you’d actually want to pick her over another actually good DPS hero is 1st point attack maps with rough chokepoints, which even then the gimmick only works once or twice before the enemy has you figured out. Funnily enough her position in the game literally just swapped from 1st point defense to first point attack.
It’s also pretty hilarious to see people try to argue that she’s good and usable when she’s literally had the same garbage stats since the game’s launch and is overshadowed by any other DPS than can do damage better and safer. Her job in being a total Teleporting bot isn’t necessary to begin with.
3 Likes
Because Symm players like exaggerating and being drama queens/kings about how bad she is.
She can use some help, but they make her sound 100% useless…but then continue to play her lmao
1 Like
Yeah, that is her niche, she is better at it than other DPS, the end.
Honestly Sym was never considered a DPS in the general sense. There are DPS mains, and then there is Sym mains.
DPS specialists will play normal damage heroes, and pick Sym when it suits them and to make a specific plays, therefore they consider Sym as niche but not UP. It is Sym mains who force her to be used every where and anywhere with anyone that leads to frustrations, and come crying to deaf ears.
Another Symm main here. I’ll just list my big issues with each ability.
HP: Not enough of it. Symm has 0 self defense options and her lack of health doesn’t make up for it.
Primary: Not enough range, starting damage is pathetic and it needs time to ramp up.
Secondary: Orbs move too slowly. Very easy to avoid.
Turrets: Barely Noticable since their DPS was lowered to 40.
Teleporter: Best use is to now leave it at spawn since they butchered the way the cooldown works. Trying to use it like the old TP punishes you with a longer cooldown and less up-time.
Ultimate: It’s fine I guess.
2 Likes
it’s not really about being bad
it’s the fact that you can get way more value through other options, with less effort
but to an extreme, more so than, say, comparing a hero like mccree to soldier
you can have good games as a symmetra
but learning and playing a different hero would probably overall be an improvement to the games outcome in more scenarios than not
yea, her niche uses will push some of those wins further, but it’s uncommon to the point that another hero would have just been a better option in general
1 Like
Honestly she is very effective in the right hands, and god awful to other players.
She is a lot better then people on the forums make her put to be tbh, but I disagree that she doesn’t need changes. I’d mildly buff her, mostly just changing the damage on her V1 beam.
She still suffers from being relatively defenceless against someone diving her in comparison to nearly every other dps (and most supports too) and she also isn’t consistent enough.
Still not super terrible like others say tho
She’s too squish for her effective range, meaning she relies on either getting healed by her supports, or rng’ing her ways to kills by spamming right click down a choke like shes junkrat.
Even her ult isnt that powerful, unless her team starts jig gling back and forth between it.
How I’d buff her, is to make her turrets be an ability with a static cd, but make the turrets invincible.
E.G She gets to throw 3 turrets, which last for 10 secs, after which she has a 10 sec cd.
That way, she can work more as area denial, rather than just ran at people and hold lmb
exactly. why go through effort of learning to aim orbs when you can learn a sniper who’d deal more damage, more consistent to land from afar and is more threatening to zone better for the same charge time?
why go through all the hoops of getting a team pocket to w+m1 when a junkrat can shield break just as quick if not quicker from various corners/hiding spot where he can get to and do so independently?
why learn to flank with sym with her now guaranteed 12s waiting/down time on her flanks when heroes like tracer get in and out far better with much much less down time between flanks too?
like this isn’t even a matter of “jack of all trades” vs “specialist” when she does far worse than the jack of all trades soldier76 in all of them too.
2 Likes
“Her orbs now do 140 damage, everything else is how I remember it”
Ya know, besides her turrets being butchered.
Symmetra has no survivability. Her level 1 damage is mediocre as well, leading to her absolutely suffering as a damage pick. Her turrets, originally a great defensive feature,
do such little damage, a moira can almost heal through all 3 of them. With extreme(and I mean EXTREME) team support, she can be a decent pick, however even in the best situations, Symmetra is almost always a worse pick than something else.
Her turrets originally allowed her to counter heroes such as tracer and genji, but with her turret nerfs and pitiful beam damage plus the most skill based beam track in the game, the flankers she could originally handle grind her to dust. Symmetra basically doesn’t counter anything. Everything she was either once built or is currently built to counter cannot be countered by her. She cannot counter shields because she cannot safely play close to them, she can’t counter flankers because she doesn’t do enough damage…
Honestly, symm is just the dps category’s zenyatta; decent utility and overall stats, but is unviable due to basically being a free kill for half the roster.
2 Likes
Why people think Symmetra is bad? Ok, here are some answers:
- no independency. Her best utility mandates teammates to make use of it to be useful;
- no survivability. If almost any hero engages her, unless she already has her beam charged up and at lv 3, she is likely to die fast;
- weak turrets. They are still very fragile, but also there is 2x less of them, making cleaning them up 2x easier. Unless someone is literally blind, they will get rid of turrets before dying from them;
- very slow orbs. Unless one is fired at very close range, almost any hero can easily avoid them;
It’s kind of insult to Zenyatta, that still can use his own utility himself to decent effect.
1 Like
True, but the comparison is still pretty relevant lol
It’s just even more sad for Symmetra: her teleport is great utility, but she herself can’t utilize it to decent effect in most cases.
It’s like if Orisa had shield, that protects everyone, except herself.
2 Likes
her teleporter is actually one of the best skills in the game imo
you can reduce the time it takes a slow orisa or mccree to mvoe from spawn onto the point by at least 5 seconds, if not more
this really adds up, it starts to save you major time and suddenly your team has more presence on the point, more ult gain from being in fights, more ults popped off, which means theyre more likely to win fights, etc.
it’s a snowball effect. one simple mechanic that saves seconds ends up contributing heavily to a win