Sym 3.0 is still trash - We need Sym 4.0


#1

This version of Sym is very simple. The TLDR:

Primary fire: Energy Balls
Secondary fire: Personal Photon Barrier
Ability 1: Sentry Turret
Ability 2: Teleporter
Ult: Auto-Lock Energy Beam

I don’t want to wait another year for Sym 4.0, so I’ll just make 4.0 right now.


Photon Projector - Primary Fire: Energy Balls

Removing the lock on beam from Sym was a terrible mistake. It was unique to Sym. It was fun to use and it felt so much different from everything else in the game.

Now, Sym just has a really terrible version of Zarya’s gun. It just feels like a cop out because they couldn’t think of anything else to do with it.

I think its time to embrace the Energy Balls!

  • Energy Balls are now Sym’s primary fire
    • Photon Projector now has 100 ammo
    • Energy Balls cost 10 ammo
    • Energy Balls are always the same size (size of current max charge Energy Ball)
    • Energy Balls no longer have a manual charge up time
    • Energy Balls now work like Mei’s Icicles with automatic charge up included in the shot
    • Cast time: 0.75 seconds
    • Energy Ball damage and projectile speed is dependent on Photon Projector charge level
    • When a Energy Ball does damage, it rewards a charge on Photon Projector, up to level 3
    • After 3 second of no damage, Photon Projector loses 1 level of charge
    • When a Energy Ball hits a barrier, Photon Projector does not gain a level, however it instantly refunds the ammo of that Energy Ball
  • Reload time decreased to 1.6 seconds from 1.8 seconds

Photon Projector Levels

  • Photon Projector Level 1
    • Energy Ball damage: 100 (40 impact/60 explosive)
    • Projectile Speed: 25 meters per second
  • Photon Projector Level 2
    • Energy Ball damage: 120 (60 impact/60 explosive)
    • Projectile Speed: 28 meters per second
  • Photon Projector Level 3
    • Energy Ball damage: 140 (80 impact/60 explosive)
    • Projectile Speed: 31 meters per second

Photon Projector - Secondary Fire: Photon Barrier

Another mistake was removing Sym’s personal survivability and utility with her own personal Photon Barrier. This should return to Sym but in a new and unique way.

Sym now uses her secondary fire slot as a way to protect herself and others behind her with a new Photon Barrier. Think of this as a type of Zarya bubble.

Holding down secondary fire causes the Photon Projector to encases Sym in a large bubble shaped barrier that projects out from the gun.

Enemies can NOT pass through this hard light barrier. It can use the same texture as the current Sym wall.

  • Photon Barrier is now Sym’s secondary fire
    • Maximum Barrier uptime is 5 seconds
    • Barrier has 1500HP
    • After the barrier is destroyed or 5 seconds have passed, secondary fire goes on a 10 second cooldown

You can not use primary fire or any other Sym abilities while inside Photon Barrier, but you can move like normal and interact with a Teleporter that’s already been set up.


Ability 1 -Sentry Turret

Removing 6 turrets down to 3 has been a slight improvement but they still get destroyed too fast. You now spend too much time constantly sending out Sentry Turrets because most of your damage is now coming from Energy Balls and Turrets.

Making Turrets into projectiles has been mostly a good change but they shouldn’t pass through enemy barriers.

I think it’s time to actually go all in on the Sentry Turret. One Sentry Turret.

  • Sentry Turret now prioritizes the closest target to the turret instead of first target hit
  • Sym can now only place 1 Sentry Turret
    • Turret can still be launched as a projectile
    • Turret is automatically destroyed if it hits enemy barrier
    • Turret can not be damaged in mid air
    • Turret takes 1 second to deploy once it lands (invulnerable during set up)
  • Sentry Turret now has 125 Shield HP
  • Damage: 75 per second up from 50
  • Range: 12 meters up from 10 metes
  • Cooldown: 8 seconds (cooldown starts after Turret is destroyed)
  • Sentry Turret no longer slows by default

Ability 2 - Teleporter

Making the Teleporter an ability is the single greatest change for Sym 3.0. It really opens up the map for her and her team. With teamwork, this ability is insanely strong.

There are a few issues with the current version that could use some changes:

  • Teleporter HP changed to 100 HP/400 Shields from 50/250
  • Max Range: increased to 30 meters from 25 meters
  • Teleporter placement now ignores destructible objects (fences, boxes, etc)
  • Teleporter deployment time reduced to 0.9 second from 2 seconds
  • Teleporter no longer automatically teleports Torb Turrets (depending on what Torb rework brings to the table)

Also:

  1. Interact keys - we need a way to double bind keys. We need a contextual interact option. The same way that reviving someone in Uprising worked or how you interact with the telescope on Horizon. I want my reload button to ALSO be my interact button when standing close enough to the Teleporter.
     
  2. Auto-Interact - under general hero options we should have the ability to turn auto-interact ON/OFF for every hero so that as soon as you are close enough to a Sym Tele, you automatically interact with it like you used to do.
     
  3. Teleporter deployment methods - there should be 2 methods of deployment for the Tele:
  • Quick Deploy (which is what we have right now)
    and

  • Manual Deploy (deploy each pad separately)

    Pressing the button again would allow you to change between these 2 modes. In Sym’s Hero Options, you could change which mode is displayed first before switching.

  1. Teleporter: Duration vs Destructible - since the Teleporter CAN BE DESTROYED, the duration should be: permanent until destroyed.

    • Teleporter cooldown is now 6 seconds
    • Cooldown begins after Teleporter has been destroyed
    • If Sym destroyed her own Tele, cooldown is 3 seconds

    After the Teleporter is deployed, Sym will then have the ability to destroy her own Teleporter by holding down the Teleporter ability button for 2 seconds. Doing this will put the ability on cooldown for 50% of normal duration.
    If you wanted to keep the Teleporter with the 10 second duration with a 12 second cooldown, then the Teleporter SHOULD NOT BE DESTRUCTIBLE

Another idea that I would love to see on the Tele (but it has potential to be way too strong) is to allow the TP to be placed through the walls allowing for MEGA flank potential. But… that might be pushing it.


Ultimate - Energy Infusion

(If you have a better name for this ult, then please, Id love to hear it. Im not hooked on Energy Infusion)

Im sorry but the current Photon Barrier wall is SUCH nonsense for a DPS. It looks cool but it is incredibly lack luster and 99% of the time, you can just ignore the fact that there is a giant wall and just walk through it.

Not to mention when there are 2 Sym’s there is so much visual clutter on the screen it makes me sick.

This new ult is going to basically be Sym’s version of Molten Core (since we are potentially losing Molten Core anyway). Sym infuses her Photon Projector with a special energy source that overclocks the gun AND her Sentry Turret and brings back AUTO LOCK BEAM! YAY!

The best part: since you get the bendy auto lock beam back, we can keep that AMAZING new Sym ult line: “Yahí param vaastavikita hai!” and “Reality bends to my will!” (friendly) because it still fits.

When you activate your ult, Photon Projector ammo gets refilled and your primary fire is transformed from Energy Balls to the Target Lock Beam

  • Target Lock Beam is now primary fire
  • Range: 10 meters
  • Duration: 6 seconds
  • Damage: 160 per second
  • Ammo: 16.6 ammo per second

During your ult, your Sentry Turret also gets a slight upgrade if deployed.

  • Sentry Turret gets a range increase to 15 meters from 12
  • Sentry Turret applies a 30% movement speed slow from 0%
  • Sentry Turret HP remains the same (unlike Molten Core Turret)

Besides maybe some minor balance tweaks here and there with this build, I honestly think its better than current Sym 3.0

The PTR change with extra range is nice and helps quite a bit but it isn’t enough to solve the problems surrounding Sym 3.0. Hands down the worst rework ever done in Overwatch. I still stand by my ideas in this thread.

I understand wanting to move her to DPS slot and giving her more flexibility to help her become a viable pick but now she is just as useful as Mei or Bastion. That isn’t a good thing.

They said auto-lock beam required no skill but I don’t think that spamming Energy Balls and Turrets all day long is much of an improvement.

Sym 3.0 just isn’t good enough and even though there has been lots of negative feedback on it, it was just pushed to live and now we will have to wait another year for Sym 4.0.

They said they weren’t done with Sym 3.0 in some recent interview but unless they have something that completely changes her again, I guess its going to be another year or so of useless Sym.

Ill say I told you so when we get Sym 4.0


Played Sym Since Launch. My Current Thoughts!
Symmetra: What does she need now?
New Symm makes me very sad
#2

That’s quite a statement.


#3

Why? You think Mercy was bad? At least Mercy was OP for a year. Sym is still in troll pick status.


#4

Nah. Enough reworks.
Sym only needs a few number tweaks to be decent. (which is currently being done)


#5

I dont think you can just tweak numbers and fix the problem without making her OP. Its just a lazy way to fix the issues


#6

No need for more reworks just minor adjustments in several key area’s. I do agree the old barrier needs to return, potentially as another ability slot? Sombra and hammond have new slots, there’s potential for symm right there.

A small buff to damage numbers would be nice but isn’t needed, just adjust the ramp up rate. level 1 to 2 1 second charge time and cooldown, keep 2 seconds for the rest. Drop the orb numbers slightly and return the penetrating orbs. We need an answer to barrier watch and this has been it from day one.

Fix the clipping issues of sentries and re-enable access to parts of the map 2.0 symm could interact with by using her turrets.

Bring the teleporter one step closer to symm upon deployment. Have it also deploy 0.5 seconds faster. Removing the suicidal tp’s would also be great. The last one can be remedied by reverting the invisible wall change to stop SG’s being placed outside of certain portions of maps.


#7

A few things.

Firstly, I love Symmetra 3.0’s beam. It is tremendously satisfying for me charge it up on a tank, say a D.Va or Reinhardt, then proceed to burn away their support before finishing the Tank off. The energy balls, though effective, don’t give me the same rush. They got no chutzpah.
Thus, I don’t want the beam gone.

Secondly, I’d rather Sym 3.0 be a mini-Zarya DPS than a mini-Winston DPS. Melting enemies is fun; bubble shields are meh.
Thus, I do not want a bubble shield.

Thirdly, I love the flexibility of multiple sentry turrets. I can cover way more ground and be omni-present on the battlefield.
Thus, I do not want Sym to become anchored to one location like Torby.

I do agree in wanting the auto-lock beam back, but not to replace the Wall Ult. I’d make auto-lock an effect of having a Level 4 Photon Projector.

Call me weird, but I kinda like the Wall Ult. :slightly_smiling_face::upside_down_face:
It “could” use a little love, tho. Maybe give it a buff where it would provide +100 or +50 Shields to your Turrets while the Wall Ult was up?:thinking:
It wouldn’t make Sym OP while still allowing for a more DPS-ish impact, giving the Turrets survivability to really burn away enemies…


#8

Lets move sym from support to dps, and still give her a support ult. It does no damage, and isnt has super as other ults are.
I miss sym 2.0 waaaay better then 3.0.


#9

I agree with this completely. i just found a name for it, too!
Photon Insertion


#10

TL; DR: Symmetra 3.0 is a nerf to Symmetra DPS. Even after her rebranding to a damage character. Spread the word.

2.0 DPS:
Photon Projector
7.5 for 30 damage. Vs armor 3-4 for 12 or 16 damage.
15 for 60 damage. Vs armor 10 for 40 damage
30 for 120 damage. Vs armor 25 for 100 damage.

Orbs
120 to multiple targets hit in trajectory. Goes through barriers. -5 damage for armor for 115 damage. Slow.

Turrets
Possible 180 DPS for all 6 on a single target. Though fragile, multiple turrets mean more dps on a single target. More turrets also mean more map coverage for better defense and more turrets to destroy means more possible damage to target since they need more time to destroy all targets.

3.0 DPS
Photon Projector
3 damage a tick (20 ticks) for 60 damage. Vs armor 1 or 2 damage for 20 or 40 dps.

6 damage for 120 dps. Vs armor 3 damage for 60 dps

9 damage for 180 DPS. Vs armor 4.5 or 5 damage for 90 or 100 DPS.

Orbs
At max charge hits twice for 60 damage each instance (impact then explosion) for 120 damage. Vs armor -5 damage each instance (55 impact then 55 explosion) 110 damage total. Faster but blocked by barriers.

Turrets
Improved durability but still killed by a melee and weak fire. Only shotgun users require more time to kill a single turret. Amount halved for a total of 150 dps. Since amount is halved less coverage and less dps as enemy needs to destroy fewer turrets to clear the field.


#11

Pls no.

The last thing we need is another horrible rework that strips away even more of her character.

Sym is a UTILITY dps. If Blizz would just buff her utility (and other kit aspects), she could be great.

Here are the buffs she needs:

  • Secondary fire speed increased to 30 m/s (as we were promised)

  • Primary fire range increased to 15 m

  • health increased to 275 (100 regular, 175 shields)

  • TP lasts until destroyed

  • TP interaction radius increased by 5 m

  • Turrets charges increased to 6 (number u can deploy still 3)

  • cost of ult reduced to 1000, duration 10 seconds


#12

I think this Symm rework can be viable with some minor tweaks, and her ult gets a lot of hate and it does require high game knowledge to use effectively (watch some of Seagull’s recent Symm games to see how good the wall can be). I feel the devs are starting to work towards ults not being such high impact, zero skill, “get a bunch of kills”, abilities and I think we can see that with Symm’s and Hammond’s ults. Their ults do not do things necessarily on their own, but they allow for clever play and for the rest of the team to interact with the ult. For example, Hammond’s mine field doesn’t cover a huge area and they take a good bit to activate so it’s difficult to gank with them. However, they can deny a choke or flank for a good amount of time or be placed in a seemingly benign location to and have a Hog hook people into them.

I think the game needs to slow down in general and ults need to start having their power decreased. To me, using an ult as a set up for a big play that requires additional action and skill is so much more satisfying than pushing Q and killing people because you spew out a ton of damage for a few seconds. Bringing it back to Symm, her ult has very cool, high impact potential, but it doesn’t fit well in the game’s current environment because damage, healing, and ults keep having power creep.


#13

many major tweeks including more than one on some abilities lol


#14

One of the biggest she needs is the splash damage on her orbs doing the full 60 damage with no decay away from radius, it doesn’t work for an explosive with such a small radius. Without effective splash damage she is stuck using it ground level going for direct impacts, it effectively also reduces the utility of her tele. If they aren’t going to do that they literally are better off just removing it and doing something else because as it is, it’s worthless. Case in point ever shooting it at a team in grav, it’s worthless.

I think her ult should also give a minor slow for enemies that walk through it is a well balanced way to buff it.

Her primary is complete trash because they kept the charge up mechanic while making it exessively hard to charge it up on any normal sized target. Focus a rebalancing around addressing that and the gun will be a million times better than what it is. That is the major underlying problem causing all the issues because her dps is directly tied into/limited by it the most currently. Also they should make it a thick beam like promised.

Tp interaction totally, 75% of the time in a zarya ult you can’t even use your own tele you deploy its absurd, far less your teammates being in range. I think they could lower the time till you can use it after deployment so we can rescue people with a tp like they said it was supposed to be able to be used for.

Health/survivability totally agree, that’s a huge one especially for how they changed her and the removal of previous survivability.


#15

Eventhough I agree she needs minor tweaks, a complete rework is just unneccesary. She is already very powerful in the right hands in either attack or defence. She needs to be a bit more consistent and that’s it. Her primary fire is quite useless at the moment, but other than that I don’t see anything wrong with her. Imo they did a really great job with the rework


#16

Tbh, regarding orbs, ive been fine w the splash radius. Its the same as junk bombs or Pharah rockets.

The biggest issues I have (aside from speed):

  • The orbs are the ONLY splash damage projectile w no CC effect. Adding a temporary slow would be nice, especially if the slow was stronger/longer for direct hit than splash

  • the minimum splash damage, even for a fully charged orb, is only 12. This is the same as an uncharged Zarya. This officially makes her the lowest splash damage hero.

The combination of low splash damage, low speed, and no cc on her orbs makes them the single worst splash weapon in the game.

And i think this is something ppl dont realise when discussing the orbs. Yes theyre arguably better than before, and definitely better than Syms primary, however, the orbs are still worst weapon of its kind.

And this is one of the reasons theres still little reason to pick Sym over other DPS.


#17

Too complex, just revert to 2.0 but keep the turret changes and allow her to tp herself to the location of the photon barrier by reactivating the ability. Maybe also allow turrets to reveal target.


#18

I.
Really like this.


#19

I think it just sounds complex on paper but its really simple. Actually, its more simple than the live version of Sym lol


#20

Her orbs are trash too, they travel 50% slower than promised and their splash damage has distance decay from center of radius making that function completely moot. Her ult is meh and unimaginative for a dps rework. Her tele is too slow. Her turrets were cut in half yet have the same recast time and are destroyed effectively just as easy. Her 2 survivability options were removed. Her primary is complete trash both in function and in stats. It’s unreal such a company as Blizzard that can hire the best in the world as such incompetent staff that put out such poorly thought out and balanced garbage such as this.