Surefour's thoughts on healing in OW

Thats such a bad argument.
You really think dying within one second, healing a allies health within one second is a hell of a game? Nah.

Again healing creep. And Damage creep.

I just said why they cant be compared.

In tf2, it is pretty much useless to try to return damage to a sniper unless you are a sniper. You have to push the choke with uber (TF2’s version of barriers), then jump on the sniper. OR you bring your own sniper.

In OW, you can actively return damage with at least half of the characters. Unless the sniper is actively being healed, it is enough damage to make sure they cant get more than a couple shots off (inb4 but one shot is all she needs!).

So like it or not, widow needs to play like a rat. She needs to use her mobility to try and get that first shot to connect, or escape if she misses. By contrast, TF2 sniper can fire off for free until a soldier or scout has the space to dive him.

“If we don’t have barriers then snipers will kill our whole team.” So then the game boils down to stuff like GOATS, bunker, double shield, double shield+Sym ult, double shield+Mei wall, etc.

This is so funny, because ubercharge was a requirement in 99% of competitive TF2 games. Its also the only ability that somewhat resembles an OW barrier.

Depends on the numbers tbh. Think the main issue with the sustained VS burst damage heroes currently is that burst damage heroes can fire those potential oneshots off every second or so, or in McCree’s case he can remove you in under half a second.

Definitely not. But she is part of the problem.
And they have to nerf every single post release support. And re adjust the first 3 healers

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And Burst was D.Vas job. Her DM deletes burst. And since she isnt that great any more Burst rules the game pretty much. Technically you could say its also Zarya’s job, and charge to kill the burst damage heroes

But with all this damage creep and healing creep the game just becomes a mess

Just gonna… throw this out here.
We’ve not had an update on “power creep” since.


I never get that…
Why should sustained dmg be preferred after you nerf healing…
Burst is still better, why use sustained dps if you an one-shot your opponent

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  1. The community went in an uproar when they said Soldier and Genji were fine
  2. Look at Soldier’s pickrate

I haven’t been following this too much because I am okay with the state of OW…

But with the light info I have read and acknowledged, I like the way OW is now… high heals, high dmg…

Lowering things like dmg to more sustained/over time doesn’t make sense to me. Doesn’t that take away from the skill/reflex/high speed and fast paced pressure-fest that OW is? Isn’t that what makes it fun?

What would be fun about lowering/reverting/rolling back to something slower, more awkward and clunky?

More forgiving and consistent?

Because the community is overwhelmingly bad.

My SRs as of S19*
Tank: 4051
DPS: 3.7k
Support: 3.6k

*Not played competitively in a while. Hate Double Shield.

The community can have as much of an uproar as they want. They’re predominately lower elo. 70% of the playerbase is sub-Diamond.
I’m above Diamond.

Does that mean you guys shouldn’t be listened to? Absolutely not, of course your feedback should be appreciated. But the game cannot be balanced for that or the higher ranks will be overburdened with balance issues.

worse. Ana had 10 rounds in her clip with each bullet healing for 75hp every 0.6 seconds

That amounted to 125 health every second. Now double that just because Anas nade used to double the healing numbers. That is 250 health per second restored to a target for 5 full seconds which was the duration of the nade then. This is without including the 100 restored by nade itself and after 5 seconds it was still available.

Speaking through numbers, Ana could pocket targets so hard that even if you picked roadhog just stood still and didn’t use take a breather, she would outheal soldier 76 entire kit, with 100% accuracy on bodyshots and even with couple of crits tossed in there. this is zens ultimate level of healing, when have we ever even come close to so much healing since then?

And yet it wasn’t snipers who were meta. The most picked dps when we look at GM pickrates for that time were tracer, gengu and ofcourse soldier 76.

Sure, but the community consists of pro players and GM players as well who also got upset about this particular statement made by the devs.

A lot of people understand this concept, and how healing design especially has broken the game for a lot of people. The ultra echoe chamber will always defend their point thou, and by thee opinion blizzard will always follow since they love the chants confirming their decision rather than criticizing them. I mean I see people defend The last of us 2 and The last Jedi vigorously, praising every creative head behind those products and those supposed critics and media hailing them as well. No matter how bad something is in terms of narrative or design choice there will always be people defending it and for some it is all they need, a little ego confirmation for them to never change their stance on something.

The healing design will never be reverted and every new support to the game will be in line with the other new additions as in truck of all trades. If anything Baptist but confirmed that, when he surpass both brig and Moria at first.

Overall I believe it just makes for a lot worse game we’re you even more dependent on your core components of your setup - healer/tanks - while also being more dependent on people synergizing for the W.

But, this simply isn’t true at all? Back when the game first released you could run 6 of the same hero. And Nothing stopped a lucio from healing himself, or mercy’s passive regen. or the 5 other of the same hero healing them.

I’m sure that’s why Soldier was a top pick back then, the sustain damage king. When burst damage was still entirely possible with things like widow in the game, but wasn’t practiced after 2-3 years of use to become consistent with their mechanics at the time, with their infinite skill cap gaps.

Again, Bap Moira and even Brigitte (minus the bug on rally) were never able to keep up with the effective damage output of entire team comps. Did we just forget it took goats 3 supports and 3 tanks working together with both healing and damage mitigation to keep a widow and rework spamzo in check?

Every healer is doing less than they were capable of at their launch, and we’re restricted to only any combination of two healers now, where as before you could run a team of healers. Or way back in the beginning when you could run 6 of the same healer.

Healing potential is at an all time low. It goes without saying that “effective hp” which is nothing more than potential hp actually becomes applied in the first place, is at an all time low.

Edit: lets just be clear here. S4, and pretty much all of the few well known people you see under his comment: Chipsa, Linkzr and even MonteCristo who’s known for his terrible takes are all in agreence with this. These are the same people who thought Genji was under performing, even when the devs showed otherwise.


So, given the same opportunity of one shot for one kill, both have the same potential. If either sees you first and clicks your head then you die. That relationship between the sniper and the opposing player is the same in both games, and is what makes them directly comparable.

Do you know who has the time to shoot back at Widowmaker? People behind barriers. Do you know what OW has a big problem with? Balancing barriers. Do you know what the playerbase insists on running no matter what? Barriers. Do you know what people don’t like to watch? Players shooting at multiple barriers.

The entire point of my OP was to suggest that reining in Widow’s mobility could reduce the overall reliance on barriers. If she had to walk most places and decide whether or not to blow a big cooldown to reach a more advantageous spot then she gets toned down without losing any part of her sniper identity.

Mobility is how widow plays around barriers. If you reduce her mobility, you make her bad. You DONT make barriers less necessary. In fact, you make static barriers (like orisa) a whole lot better.

Using TF2 as an example, sniper being low mobility didnt make uber any less necessary. If a sniper was defending last, you still needed uber before you even showed your face at the choke.

it’s good if you turn your monitor on and practice. it’s not that hard to get better at TF2, and in that process you can get good enough to where even the most OP weapon strat isn’t as effective as it could be. now try that against doomfist.

Sadly this “escalating imbalance” (between teams and their position) is what drives esports-viewership, and is a central element of why people find MOBAs or even BRs fun to watch.

In other words the focus on esports has to focus on providing this, as viewers drive the relative marketing value of the money spent on promoting esports initially as a loss leader, via twitch engagement.

And yet, OW has a barrier problem. I’m not inventing problems to solve here, only trying to analyze the root causes and suggest changes.

If we’re looking at a flow chart of changes since they launched 2/2/2 and put Sigma into the game:

  1. Widow’s mobility allows for one-shots from any range and any angle (and can be run alongside an overtuned Hanzo for “double sniper”) ->
  2. Teams run double shields at all times ->
  3. Most DPS shut out of gameplay due to strength of shields ->
  4. Shields get small nerfs; any other heroes thriving get nerfed (Sym, Moira, Doom, etc.) except Hanzo for some reason ->
  5. Teams continue to run double shields ->
  6. Shields get BIG nerfs, various nerfs to Hanzo, Reaper, and Bap ->
  7. Teams supplement shield health with Mei wall and CC ->
  8. Mei wall nerfed, Mei reworked ->
  9. Teams continue to run double shields ->
  10. Several DPS buffed ->
  11. Teams continue to run double shields ->
  12. Genji super-buffed ->
  13. Teams run double shields + Genji

Regarding Ubercharge, it’s a temporary single-use ability and I don’t consider that to be on par with deploying multiple shields for the entire length of the game just to counter one or two heroes.