Supports should talk about impact instead of survivability

General Discussion
21

I don’t think asking for raw impact is the way to go either. OW1 tanks had oodles of impact, but man, no-one wanted to play that mess. And supports that are even more important end up being more of a priority target and so feel like they need more survivability.

Funnily enough, if you can find a way to make supports less impactful than DPS, they’ll feel more survivable because the enemy will be trying to murder the DPS first and foremost.

Nah, what I’d do is changes that are focused on fun, first and foremost.

2 Likes
22

ok, so, you now Bap. You can self heal and use field.

So, your positioning. What is it?

You are over 50% of the way up. Plat isn’t low rank, it is above middle. You are now in the top 20% of the player base?

I am asking for the other 50% here. mid gold and below.

What is THEIR positioning.

23

Against a lone Genji you can just kill him from the same positioning. Bap outlasts Genji in a 1v1 assuming equal skill.

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In Gold? yes, Silver? … it is anyones game. Bronze, no, you won’t hit him. He will win that fight.

Precision weapons against Genji is a poor idea in low ranks, their ability to aim is… well… not really there.

25

Which brings us right back to what I said about skill floors being higher for supports in OW2 than they were in OW1.

26

Ok, so what you are saying is “we have made the game suck for the bottem 25% of the players”

That isn’t long term viable. Your new players are in that area. Incidentally (and DIRECTLY related) that is where Genji’s pick rate skyrockets.

What is your cut off in player percentages where you say “it is ok for the game to be awful for you”

27

I know and it’s why I was against 5v5 to begin with. It’s not fixable. If you fix it for the bottom 25% what happens to the dps who now have no impact vs the top 25%?

28

Yeah, and then we have the Kevins of the world saying “The whole supports play dead by daylight thing is just false.”

It isn’t, you spend you time pushing the time of the fights out until you go down, but you do go down.

You spend most of your time in that fight, trying to live. Sure, you have self healing, so it takes a while for you to die. Your average deaths per game is pretty low, but that doesn’t mean you haven’t spent MOST of your time playing dead by daylight.

29

Well…The stats say they dont but they dislike the gameplay. Which was all predicted and warned about when 5v5 was announced. It’s not fixable without breaking something else and just shifting the problem onto dps instead.

30

The stats isn’t saying how long the are running. Dead by daylight doesn’t have a super high deaths per second either. You spend the entire game hunted.

Survival horrors don’t have a lot of deaths per second either, but you spend a lot of time running.

Saying the “they are not dying at a super high rate” doesn’t tell you a god damn thing about what they are doing during that time.

31

Well how do you fix it without turning everything above plat into “only the dps can die”

Supports such as Kiriko, Bap and Lucio can already 1v1 almost all of the dps roster. They cant be buffed without becoming unviable targets similar to tanks.

32

You put back in the stuff which gives a more stable front line.

It isn’t that you end up fighting flankers which is a problem, it is the free access which flankers have to the back line which is.

33

We both know Blizzard wont do that though. It defeats the entire point of OW2.

34

Does it? The point of Overwatch 2 was “We screwed our tank players so hard they left and we had to cope by dropping one”

They removed CC because they didn’t want the rest to leave.

That is OW2 in a nutshell.

The collapse of the front line is a side effect.

35

Along with “we cant stop high sustain metas.” Note how rapidly they nerfed Junkerqueen when she was causing a meta where things didnt die vs how slowly they’re dealing with Hog, Sojourn etc

36

They ditched the shields. That had already happened.

But the shields isn’t what the support players cared about. They were not getting into sniper line of fire, they NEVER spent their time doing that.

That is why I treat “just position better” with such distain.

It wasn’t the problem for support, it was NEVER the problem for support.

37

I’m all in on this, and the idea that power!=fun. I don’t dislike dueling dps, but maybe some pressure needs to be taken off of supports by nerfing healing and giving them better utility for peeling and influencing the fight in other ways.

Tough to say. I’m a bad sample because I would be totally into battle Mercy.

3 Likes
38

sign me up, my body is ready.

2 Likes
39

I play Ana for 5 years and managed to climb from Bronze to peak 3750 in OW1 and currently I am sitting at M3. I am dropping and rising between M5 and Dia1 somewhat. My personal biggest issue as Ana and sometimes as Kirko is the fact that it is impossible to “react” to a Hog Hook. You have to predict that the enemy Hog is about to Hook someone in order to throw your Nade to safe them. Its gonna be even harder, when they get hooked out of sight or while you are busy healing someone else. Sometimes even Nano wont do it, since you have a cast time of 0.15 seconds. Together with my latency of around 40ms it just gets canceled. Same with Kiriko with her Suzu, it has a traveltime. Your swiftstep also has casting time as well as downtime before you start throwing your Suzu. Sojourn is oneshotting left and right, Anas nade is getting cleansed over and over again. It feels like you as Support are powerless against certain Heroes. If I get doved by a Genji or Tracer and die, its okay, it happens. You got assassinated by flankers, it is their job. They take high risks in diving you.

If Hogs Hooks hits you, its a death sentence. Even if you survive the combo, you have such low health (and even if you get healed to full HP) and are off position, that you will still die. Its pretty rare to survive that.

Sojourns is self explainatory. Having a 1shot (even if its 195 without mercy pocket) with so much mobility and spam dmg as well as a area denial E with does way too much dmg is just a busted Hero design.

Widow & Hanzo are really annoying as well, but still better desinged then Sojourn. All Snipers have mobility penatly while beeing scoped, which makes them an easier target to hit.

Not much to say out of the top my head.

40

Something the community won’t accept but needs to hear: Supports do have a problem, but it isnt the one people are dead set on, and theyre part of the reason that blizzard is looking in the wrong direction

1 Like