Support were balanced to fix the Meta Issue?


#1

Currently, Damage outweighs healing by a drastic amount. Mercy having the highest healing average in the game only makes up 12% of the damage done in an average game. She does 20% if you factor in the tanks in the game blocking damage by shield. But this still means that, out of all the damage that needs to be healed, Mercy is only healing 1/5 of that damage. Adding Zenyatta into the mix will change it to 1/4 of the total damage needing to be healed. This is drastically low. A primary healer such as Ana, Moira or Mercy should be healing near 30%-35% per game on average. While secondary healers should be healing for 20%-25% of the damage that needs to be healed.

Right now, because of the low level of healing, in comparison to the overall damage being done per game, it is causing supports to be pick based on how well they compliment other DPS at doing damage. This is why Zenyatta + Mercy has been a running duo for a very long time. Because Heals do not prevent a loss, killing the other enemies prevents a loss. So whoever is better at doing that wins. This is not to be confused, heals should be less than damage! However, the gap is to large right now making heals a complete null factor when deciding team Comps. The best way to break the meta cycle is to make secondary supports more comparable to Primary supports in terms of healing output and the addition of Damage resistance to some support tool kits to create for more combination of Support + DPS and Support + Tank synergy. Making other supports good enough to compensate for the fact that they do not have Rez is extremely important to permanently end the cycle of meta in overwatch. My hypothesis is, if another duo existed that countered Pharmercy? Would Pharmercy really be that OP? On console? What if an infinite number of support + DPS synergies were available? What would be Meta at that point, if everything had a counter?
Here is what I propose and why!


  • Ana
  1. Biotic grenade no longer does damage or debuffs enemies.
  2. Biotic grenade now has 7 second cooldown, down from 10 seconds.
  3. Biotic grenade duration up to 5 seconds, down from 4 seconds.
  4. Biotic grenade now applies 15% damage bonus to allies for the duration.
  5. Biotic grenade now also applies 15hps for its duration, total 75 health.
  6. Biotic grenade now travels through enemy barriers.

Ana’s primary issue is her inability to heal through enemy barriers, this new biotic grenade allows her to heal through shields and the heal overtime gives her the time to change to a more advantageous position while still giving her team additional heals and support with Damage buff. This still requires aim and understanding of trajectory making it a skill play which is exactly what Ana is. All of these buffs to Biotic Grenade stand to compensate for the fact that she can no longer damage and debuff. Making Ana a much more consistent primary support.

  • Brigitte
  1. Repair pack health recovery reduced from 150Hp to 100hp
  2. Repair pack cooldown reduced to 4 seconds.
  3. Repair pack now gives 10% damage resistance to the target for its duration.
  4. Repair pack now travels 80mps up from 30mps.
  5. Inspire now heals for 22hps up from 16hps.

Brigitte’s offensive tool kit has consistently been nerfed, along with her ultimate ability which counts as her utility. These changes would allow her to be a more consistent support pick and increase her utility in a non-offensive manner. The additions to Repair pack allow her to more consistently heal fellow teammates increasing her overall consistency as a anti-dive support.

  • Lucio
  1. Crossfade aura healing increased from 16hps to 20hps
  2. Sound barrier total duration increased from 6.5 seconds to 8 seconds.

While Lucio’s utility is extremely high, but he still cannot compete with the utility of Rez. Increasing his healing allows him to be equally strong in both utility and healing. Increasing the duration of Sound barrier will also give him more control at handling other offensive ultimate abilities such as Rocket Barrage and Deathblossom. Making him a much more consistent pick as a utility support.

  • Mercy
  1. Regeneration Passive removed. Will only be available during Valkyrie mode.
  2. New passive applies a 10% Damage reduction to her healing tether, does not include damage amp. This also does not apply to the multi tethers during Valkyrie mode.

While Mercy is currently the most played support, her passive ability Regeneration opens the door for her to utilize her superior mobility as a means to regain health which then opens the door and possibility for her to solo heal. Removing Regeneration still keeps her as a very powerful healer, that is also dependent making it much more risky to play her as a solo support. This will serve to make Mercy still a consistent pick, but move her to be more of a utility support.

  • Moira
  1. Healing orb travel max speed increased to 40mps up from 20mps. Orb will still slow down while healing a target.

Moira is the only healer in this game, in my opinion, that is complete. But, increasing her Healing orb speed to compensate for her no longer being able to heal through enemy barriers is a much needed quality of life change to increase her flexibility and consistency as primary healer.

  • Zenyatta
  1. Charge Volley alternative fire removed.
  2. Primary fire damage increased from 46 to 50.
  3. Reload speed increased to 1.25 down from 2 seconds.
  4. Primary fire travel speed increased to 85mps, up from 60mps.
  5. New AOE stun ability added with a 4 meter radius around Zenyatta.
  6. New ability does 30 damage and has a 12 second cooldown.
  7. Harmony orb now heals for 40hps up from 30hps.
  8. Harmony orb now applies 10% Damage resistance.

While Zenyatta is a damage dealing support Hybrid his lack of mobility does not give him the opportunity to do as much damage. While his alternative fires only utility was bursting down targets out of position. Removing his alternative fire to create room for a defensive ability to assist with his vulnerability allows for him to more easily contest characters who must enter this range while also being able to use it in an offensive manner but at the cost of him making himself an easier target. Buffs to his primary fire and reload are to give him a much higher consistent damage while lowering the burst damage. This serves to keep him at the same spot in terms of raw damage. While also giving him a tool to challenge other characters who need to enter close proximity to him, much like all other supports without mobility. Lastly, increase to his heals are to make him much closer to other secondary supports in terms of relative heal power and damage.


In an average game total damage done is 85k of that 23k is blocked by shield and an additional 19k is healed. 19k:85k leaving 43k damage left to harm teammates. This number should not be so high on any average. Low healing is a true problem for Overwatch and is what is causing the cycle of Meta. The Developers seem to only fix characters to fix a pick rate issue, when the true issue is that heal do not mean anything, therefor characters who rely on utility are drastically worse in this game.

The new addition of Damage resistances is there to put more pressure on DPS and discourage them to not kill though heals, but instead kill the healers themselves. This does not mean it is not doable, if they land every headshot on the target that x2 value will easily out weigh the 10% damage resistance. As a result, this increases the value of heals overall without directly buffing primary healers heal power, and forces more attention onto supports and makes protecting supports all that more important. Primarily these changes serve to close the gap between heals and damage. Which will allow for more viable healer combinations, with more healer combination you can create more synergies between supports + DPS and Supports + Tanks. With this style of play, more things like Pharmercy will be introduced into the game. Instead of nerfing Pharmercy, this will 100% add a counter to it! Plus an infinite amount of possible synergistic combinations in the game.

All numerical values and data I got from Overbuff and Overwatch guide.


#2

Okay, props for creativity, but there’s MASSIVE problems created here.

Mercy is now F-tier because she has no survivability in a fight.

Brigitte is now unkillable (I do like the repair pack changes though).

Ana’s already pathetic survivability is now worse and her utility butchered.

You gave Zen a stun…

Lucio’s ult change I like but his healing is already strong in groups, just makes his stalling more annoying.

Moira seems unnecessary but okay, sure.


#3

Hmmm,
I’m not to sure that I agree with most of the hero changes, the healers seem to be moving into a better spot now.
This is what I think of the healers as they are on the PTR and if they need any of your changes:

Mercy: I think she’s going into a decent place, however I want to see her in the main game first, none of your changes needed.

Zen: He’s perfect right now, your buffs would make him a must pick which would be bad.

Lucio: He needs your crossfade buff but not to 20hps, make it 18.

Moira: Her buff on the PTR is all she needs, your change would make her OP.

Brigitte: Brigitte is fine with her healing , all your really doing is making her better in one part of it (inspire) and weaker in the other (repair pack). Her main problem was the shield bash which has just been nerfed.
In my eyes all she needs is:

Shield Bash: If it misses 6s CD it it hits 7s CD

Inspire: Healing buffed to 17ps

Ana: Again you’ve buffed her way to much, all she needs on the grenade is the cool down deceased to 8secs and the duration buff you proposed.


#4

Ana no longer being able to Damage enemies and apply the healing debuff is actually far to harsh of a nerf, so instead of overall making her tool kit worse I simple kept is just as strong but pushed it in the direction to compliment her healing flaws. As a primary support, she should have the means to heal anyone at all times TO SOME DEGREE Ana’s overall survivability would actually increase dramatically, now that Biotic grenade is on a 7 second cooldown, gives her 15% damage buff and heals for 15hps for 5 seconds after the initial 100hp she gets from using the grenade. How would you call any of these things worse?


Mercy has an ability called Revive, this tool is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. So long as it remains in the game, Mercy will never be F-tier. You must also remember that she keeps Regeneration during Valkyrie. She also has the strongest mobility in the game, she actually has tremendous survivability with Guardian angel alone. The only way to make her not a must pick would be to make other supports tool kit equally powerful while making her slightly more reliant for heals like Zenyatta and Brigitte.


Brigittes inspire only activates when she hits a target. And Brigitte is easily counterable by a large number of DPS heros currently in the game Reaper, Junkrat, Mei, & Pharah to name a few. Remember, the true purpose of the Brigitte and Lucio healing buffs are to make ANY combination of Support strong enough to provide consistent heals to a full team this removes the meta behind why select supports are picked.


As for Zenyatta, Volley truly was his calling card. So to take that away from him is a HUGE nerf to his damage potential. The changes to his Primary fire are not in anyway too much. Most of these were things Zenyatta already had in earlier versions of the game. As for the stun, Zenyatta is the only support who has no mobility without a defensive response. Brigitte has shield bash and Ana has sleep dart. Which is also on a 12 second cooldown, he is a low mobility character so without a means to go over or around shields his actual only utility is discord. Which we must remember, is still not as powerful as damage amp since Mercy gains ultimate charge and Zenyatta does not. The healing changes I do not believe are that strong, this only serves to make Zenyatta the support that will be picked for more than damage. The stun only means he CAN win almost any fight that a flanker chooses to bring to him just like Ana & Brigs. However, if he is out of position there is still a large change that he WILL get dived and he will still die. If D.va Dives Zenyatta Stun or No stun he is dead. The stun does not stop dive on him, it only makes Flankers jobs slightly harder. But just how tracer can bait Brigitte’s shield bash and Mccree’s flash grenade, she can bait Zen’s stun but its easier since it only goes 4meters while Brig’s goes 7.5meters.

Zenyatta is only in a good spot because of the meta, even then, in this years Overwatch League the London spitfire removed Zenyatta to add a Hog. Since, Zen was never picked for his healing capability this means something is wrong with his healing. He is only seemingly in a good spot because playing at a professional level in a tournament standing is extremely stressfull, most players adopt a mentality of “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Zen + Mercy is consistent and they understand it. Does not mean it is the most optimal. This is also the reason Philadelphia team did the exact same and removed Zenyatta for a bastion on Junkertown Attack. he is not in a good spot, he is just linear in design and easy to use correctly, for what everyone wants. Which is again, “Discord or XXXX” This is the only reason he was picked. With the addition to damage resistance to some supports, his Discord will be not as effective and at the same time in higher demand.

The amount of damage being done in this game is extremely high, that even the best healer in the game is only healing 20%. This is the very reason Meta is a thing in overwatch. Picking supports that help compliment damage, because heals are to weak to mean anything. A primary healer ALONE should be able to heal 30%-35% of all the damage done. They currently heal for 20% on average. Secondary healers, Lucio Brigitte and Zenyatta heal for even less all hovering around 10%. This means that no composition in the game can run Brigitte Zenyatta or Lucio Zenyatta. This is why triple support was a thing. Making ANY combination of supports somewhat viable is key. Two secondary supports should be able to heal for equal of what a Primary support is capable of healing. This currently is not the case, and is key to removing the issue of META. If you can honestly say that Brigitte + Zenyatta have the healing power to support a team to an EXTENT this means about 35%% of all damage being done is being healed by the two of them, then I disagree whole hardheartedly. The changes to Brigittes armor pack allow her to much more frequently and accurately give health to targets who need it. This is why the cooldown is 4 seconds. This increases her overall healing potential, since this will have an exponential increase factor on her heals. Along with a the inspire buff to insure that the entire team remains healthy but the heals are still very low! However 20hps per second will not keep anyone alive through a soldier ultimate or any ability for that matter. Because Brigitte is lacking a reversal Ultimate to counter other offensive ults, her heal power should be slightly higher.

This is the exact same concept the Developers used in the creation of both Moira and Ana. The one with the stronger heal potential has the weaker ultimate for survivability. This is also why Zenyatta has transcendence since he has the weakest heal potiential.

With that being said, understanding that Zenyatta is the only support without a healing ability, giving him a higher healing factor keeps him as a stable support pick. He provides decent heals, at the cost of no burst healing or Revive ability. Which are things all other supports have. Amp it up does 50hps to everyone in his aura range, Armor pack gives 100Hp, Biotic grenade does 100hp to everyone in the area, Mercy has Rez and the most mobility, and Moira has healing orb. Increasing Zenyatta’s overall healing output to much closer match that of his secondary healing counterparts is relatively important to the quality he brings as a support.
The true way to end the cycle of Meta is to allow any combination of support to work, but they all work well in the directions they are geared to and as such have easy and obvious counters.

Brigitte + Zenyatta now gives heals strong enough to sustain a team and are extremely aggressive, this comp would also be hard to dive. However, loses to fast mobile DPS’s, Snipers, shields and high burst damage aka Junkrat/phara/Hog. Easily counter-able. Strong weakness to Pharmercy.

Zenyatta + Lucio now gives heals strong enough to sustain a full team. The lack of consistent burst healing is made up for in this match by the fact that they have 2 reversal support ultimates. This is more of a high risk high reward strategy. Sombra destroys this comp. Emp removing Sound barrier & Zenyatta’s Shield. Also, hacking Lucio would drastically reduce total sustainability of this comp by 60%. No EMP required.

Zenyatta + Mercy overall healing potential is the exact same as other versions since Mercy lost 10hps and Zen gained 10hps to heals. Provides consistently decent heals overtime, while also providing higher damage potential to DPS along with Rez and Transcendence making it difficult to wipe. This is a comp that relies heavily on skill from DPS to be successful but is weaker when they are required to stall since they have no AOE heals. Loses to Dive, Snipers, and high aoe damage. Reaper, Mei, Widow, Tracer, & Junkrat.

As you can see, where I am going with this. Every support combination is now playable, and each one is still drastically counter-able. No support if countered appropriately will be immortal or overpowered since Zenyatta go a 10hps increase to his heals Mercy keeping Regeneration would make this comp a little to strong since heals now also give damage resistance.

Total sustainability from other supports needs to be better. Lucio and Brigittes heals are ok, when you pair them with a primary healer. This is why removing the offensive ability from Ana’s Biotic Grenade is necessary so that she does not overshadow other offensive style supports.

Lets look at how healing is distributed.

  1. Weak heals- 1hps<19hps
  2. Low heals-20hps<39hps
  3. Decent heals-40hps<59hps
  4. Strong heals- 60hps<79hps
  5. Superior heals-80hps<100hps.
    No 2 healers in this game should fall below a 40hps average heals. Having low heals on an entire team is just plain useless espeically if it is 2 healers giving out this total value. Regardless of tool kit. This is what creates the scenario of “You can play XXXXX with this comp we are running” Once you remove this primary issue, this drastically alters how comp’s are selected, effectively destroying the concept of Meta. So now lets look at the healers after my changes. I list anti-dive as a character who can not only immobilize a target, but also heal themselves. Since Zenyatta cannot heal himself, he is still very divable stun or no stun. Most characters will not even need to enter stun range to kill him.
  • Ana provides Strong focus heals, with superior AOE heals on cooldown. Low mobility, anti-Dive, Sniper.

  • Brigitte provides low aoe heals, with her superior focus heal on a cooldown. Low mobility, anti-dive, brawler.

  • Lucio provides low aoe heals, with a decent aoe heal on cooldown. High mobile, brawler.

  • Mercy provides decent consistent single target heals, while aiding in damage and provided Rez if needed. High mobility, utility.

  • Moira provides Superior aoe healing to the team, with Strong aoe heal on cooldown. Decent mobility, balanced.

  • Zenyatta provides decent consistent single target heals, while aiding in team damage with discord and primary fire. Low mobile, Sniper.

#5

Okay, this is really nice post. Unfortunately, I fundamentally disagree with the central premise which, as I read it, seems to be to (1) encourage “kill the healer” strategies, (2) reduce healer self-reliance, and (3) transition healers into more of a heal-bot role. I just disagree with that design philosophy, because I don’t think it makes for enjoyable support play. The end result of that is that the support player ends up spending a lot more time dead instead of actually playing the game. And when they aren’t dead, play is more monotone and easily frustrated by ally mistakes.

That said, there’s not too much I want to comment on, because it’s probably not super helpful for me to rag on design opinions that are fundamentally irreconcilable. So two things:

Mercy’s core design is that she is supposed to be the most consistent single-target healer. To be able to do that, she has to be a constant board presence, which means she needs both high sustain and survivability.

AoE hard CC is extremely powerful. While I understand that the intent is to increase his survivability, this ability will primarily be used aggressively in a wombo-combo fashion like Zarya’s ult. Yes, it wouldn’t have the same impact as Zarya’s ult due to the 4m radius, but you could do it every 12 seconds…


#6

Ill address this in bullets to match your points.

  1. Supports currently do not heal enough to out damage body shots alone from a vast amount of heros. This does not begin to factor in ability damage damage bonus by discord/Mercy Amp or headshot damage. By adding damage resistance to heals, this makes it harder to kill a target without directly increasing heal output. Because of this, players who struggle to hit headshots should instead focus on the support, not the original target. This is the trade off for healers being better at keeping people alive. Also, it should be noted that in every other game with Medics involved, you should always kill the healer first. Overwatch is the only game that does not follow that role. Only allowing the best of the best healers to heal a flimsy 20% of the total damage. This is sad and needs to be better.

  2. The only character who I suggested to have their sustainability decreased was Mercy. Mercy does not equal all supports. Ana, Brigitte, and Zen being the 3 non-mobile supports had their sustainability increased. It was only Mercy. But, to you point, if Mercy’s core design was for her to truly be the Jack of all trades, the prehaps nerfing her passive Regeneration is the correct direction to go as opposed to removing it. Currently she heals for 20hps per second. This number should not be higher than both Lucio and Brigitte’s Primary healing tool. But it is. This is sad! Which is why both Lucio and Brigitte should have their healing outputs increased. Together, they should be able to heal for about as much as Zen on an entire team in order to maintain balance between supports. Balance between supports is IMPERATIVE to the health of this game. And a staple if we are to remove the idea behind meta.

  3. Im not sure how you came to the conclusion that they would be heal bots, if they are more involved. As a support you should always be looking for who is the next target that needs healing. But before Brigitte could not due that because of linear her Repair pack is in design. Now Ana & Brigitte have had their tool kits reworked to be better at healing, while simultaneously increasing their Actions per minute since the cooldowns were decreased. If anything, these changes serve to make them more involved, and give them a greater opportunity pool to make a difference.


So I think most people actually just see the word Stun and instinctively get scared. So allow me elaborate a bit more on the Zenyatta stun. As it currently stands, Brigitte has a shield bash which causes stun. This can penitrate shields because it is physical. Physical damage is allowed to penetrate shields. Since Zenyatta is using an AOE stun, it has the same properties as Mccree’s flash bang. However, unlike Mccree, Zen cannot throw his stun over a shield to stuff a tank. The only way for Zenyatta to stun mutiple people is if he gets the drop on them, which is impossible due to his lack of mobility, or if he walks through the enemy shield. Which is also unlikely because unlike Brigitte, he does not heal himself, has no Armor on his health bar, and has no shield to protect himself with. So i actually disagree heavily with you. His stun can be used offensively, it requires him to have assistance from outside sources, AKA being pocketed to some extent. But this is still dangerous because he runs the risk of walking in front of him team barrier making him a very very killable target. The only way for Zen to make this happen is if the enemies are currently already under the affects of another CC. Which, if that is the case, makes the need for him to utilize his stun completely redundant. The nature of that characters tool kit is to play at long range, he does not excel at close range combat. He can make it work due to his damage output. But he is a sniper, which is his core design. He is usually in the back. Throwing discords and volley shots. This stun can be blocked with a shield, and there for will not be as impactful because he lacks the mobility and utility to make it useful. But, this does open the door for him to have very synergystic options with other heros to make his stun viable. Which is the overall purpose of my post to begin with. Increase the overall synergy, making more things like Pharmercy possible. THIS IS THE POINT. Alone, his stun can only be used defensively. But when you add another hero into the Mix he should be allowed to be offensive. He is still a DPS hybrid support. This is apart of his job description. But he just needs a little assistance to make it happen.


#7

Right, okay, we’re going to get lost in the weeds here. And I really don’t want to line-by-line you, so, again, just a few things.

The trade-off for healing should not (usually) be survivability in my opinion - it should (usually) be damage output, AoE, CC, or range. Generally speaking, I would argue in favor of average TTK being roughly equivalent across all heroes, though the mechanisms can vary considerably (tanks get more health but a bigger model that is easier to hit, flankers get low health plus evasion and/or lifesteal, rangers get low health but easy kiting, etc). “Kill the healer first” is still a primary strategy in Overwatch. I’m more objecting to the implication that it should be the “best” strategy.

This is part of where I see the heal-bot shift coming from. If you drop damage too much in favor of boosting healing, then that makes the healer role more monotone and hence less engaging, because your contribution to the outcome of the match becomes more about healing than anything else. Mercy’s core design is not to be a jack of all trades. She’s very much the opposite and an outlier in the healer roster. She’s very niche, and hence very monotone, because she has poor damage and no CC in exchange for having strong mobility, sustain and healing.

And, yes, the Zen CC ability would be more reliable with additional CC from another hero to facilitate it. But that’s part of the problem. Chain CC. Hard CC is usually balanced by accuracy or range limitations; eg, Brig, Rein, McCree, Mei, Doomfist, Ana. Chain CC removes that disadvantage, because you’re basically guaranteed to land follow-up CC. If you’ve never played a game where AoE chain CC is common, well, let me say, it sucks. I think they need to be super careful about adding any more hard CC to the game. Given the fast pace and low TTK, a 1 second stun is like 30% damage mitigation and 6m of extra range/mobility.

PS: I only picked those two changes to comment on because I thought those were the only two worth debating. I think the others are okay, even though they are not how I would approach balancing the healers. I really don’t have much of an opinion on damage mitigation vs healing. They’re the same thing as far as I’m concerned, just with a timing difference.


#8

Ahh I see what you are referring to. And I think we are simply arguing two different points. From my experience, and in my own opinion, I think the best healers should be able to solo heal for about 35% of total damage done on average. Mercy currently has the highest healing average out of all supports, and it is only 20% This is a big promblem for overwatch. Increasing the healing output of other healers fixes a fundamental flaw in the game. There are not enough heals being dish out, especially considering all the ways that are availible in game to boost damage output. Raise the healing floor of the game, but keep the ceiling the same. Just allow more medics to reach it slightly more frequently. This is why Brigs, Lucio and Zen have their healing outputs increased. Only by a slight margin. Lucio and Brigs are only getting 5hps increase since they heal an entire team. Zen gets 5hps increase since he can only heal 1 at a time & an additional 5hps because he has no heal abilities! Outside of his ultimate.


Next issue is the Mercy must pick scenario. Because other healers have their values increased, it also allows them to contribute to the team fight in a way she can not. By increasing their heal output. This makes up for the fact that secondary supports are fighting for a spot in every game against Mercy who has Rez. This makes other secondary supports more appealing to play because at least they are bringing low heals to the team fight instead of weak heals. This does matter!


Now the issue of CC and how this game handles it. Right now, yes if someone is currently in a CC chain it sucks and they are screwed. But now that damage resistance is in the game, supports have a greater chance to prevent that. In the normal Meta is Rein is bashed by Brigitte, no healing can save him. Even if he survives the bash stun chain. He will have such low health it will not matter! This was because burst damage is high and Heals could not keep up. Now that Mercy, Brig’s & Zen add damage resistance to their tool kit. And have a higher heal output, Rein will actually take less damage 20% less damage indefinitly if both Mercy and Zen pocket him. And he will still gain 90hps, thanks to the Zen harmony health increase. This is the defining reason damage resistance needed to be added. To make CC and CC chains manageable by supports if they can see them coming. This once again, creates for some interesting combinations.
Any combination with Brigitte will work since she can force back anyone who tries to kill her friendly Reinhardt. Any comp with Mercy will also be fine since she give 10% damage resistance and 50hps. Which leaves

  1. Ana+Zen= Rein wont die

  2. Ana + Moira= A bit trickier, but he should be fine.

  3. Zen + Lucio= Boop them all back, makes it difficult for them to capitalize on Rein. This is very difficult to do, because amp it up must be done in anticipation to the stun! More than likely, Rein might die. Zen can try to use his stun to protect Rein but this is extremely risky for Zen. High risk, high skill, but also high reward though since they can reverse the stun CC chain if done correctly.

I see no reason to elaborate more, these are the possible synergies I was referring to between supports. Working together to stop a what normally would have been a wipe. The enemy team would need to go Mercy and Zen to make up for the Damage resistance the Rein has in most comps to kill. But if they go that, they would lose Brigitte entirely. Which means no CC chains to begin with. Now, if they go triple support they are losing a DPS which means they are losing damage overall. The damage resistance giving to Rein by the healers would compensate for this. These new synergies would become the answer to CC chains on their own.


#9

Removing Mercy’s self-healing will not be healthy for her. That means she will be left with no way to heal herself other than leaving your team to get health packs. While you may say that you should just run a second healer, let’s be honest, in Bronze-Gold you’re lucky to even have one. The best course of action in regards to her regeneration is either bumping it to a 2 second delay or back to what it was previously, 3 seconds.


#10

General Comments

Aye. We do seem to be talking past each other a little. Simplest way to phrase my perspective is probably: “I like the level of diversity in the current healer roster and I don’t really want everyone brought inline with Mercy in terms of healing.”

The exception at this point is probably Lucio, because I feel like his niche isn’t strong enough, but he probably only needs tweaks to have a more clearly defined role. For example:

  • Reduce ult cast time.
  • Remove self-healing penalty.
  • Increase aura radius to 20m while amped.
  • Reduce amp cooldown to 9 seconds
  • Add a little more oomph to boop. Either stronger knockback or more damage.

That’s probably enough to make him a good counter to burst ults and snipers. Maybe?

I think Ana could use some sort of expensive sustain mechanic too. Eg, (1) being able to swap weapons to a medkit to heal herself like Bastion or (2) healing by standing on a med pack station without using the med pack (even if it’s on cooldown). That’s neither here nor there though, I suppose.

Healing and Damage Reduction

Yeah, if you just want to increase the base healing rate across the board, then I’m cool with that. Really, anything that bumps up the average TTK in this game a little I’m not going to complain too much about. Kills are a little too fast for my personal taste. I think it’s balanced well as is against match times, but I wouldn’t mind slightly longer matches with more meaningful (harder) kills. (That’s a big part of why I like Total Mayhem, even though it tends to stall in overtime.)

Though, you’d probably also need to increase everyone’s hp by 15%-20% as well for the baseline healing boost to really be meaningful, given the number of 1-2 shot kills that can’t be healed through. I get that adding damage mitigation is one way to create that hp boost, but… I’m not sure. It’d only effect some comps then, and non-self damage mitigation is accomplished through shields, barriers, and armor in this game. Not sure why, but my guess would be because it’s (1) easier to communicate (a +20% hp shield/armor bonus is visible on your HUD) and (2) they can use flat values instead of percentages to reduce stacking and balance problems (no multiplicative growth of base/temporary hp bonuses). Ana’s ult is the only exception that occurs to me, but its effect is pretty obvious.

Mercy

Mercy’s rez seems to be a really common balance compliant. I’m not convinced it’s the big deal people make it out to be. But, if it really is a problem, then it seems to me that addressing rez directly instead of nerfing other parts of her kit would be a much cleaner solution. They could easily adjust the animation time, health restored, or cooldown to weaken it.

Alternatively, swapping her ult and rez is a really common suggestion. I think that’s a nice idea. It also sounds more interesting to play. Having a flight only version of Valk on cooldown would be fun. And rez could get a little more oomph to justify it as an ult; like, range, casting speed, and applying a temporary buff after rez (temporary health regen, damage boost, etc).

Or they could just add two more main healers with pseudo-rez abilities. Symmetra’s old teleporter was a lot like rez in effect. In HotS, both Kharazim and Uther have ults functionally similar to rez. Kharazim’s in particular. He has a preemptive rez buff; ie, if the target dies in the next 3 seconds they are rez’d at full health. Given that there currently isn’t a flanker/assassin healer in the game, a Kharazim style hero would make sense as the next addition (shotgun/beam/flamethrower instead of melee though).

CC

They could also balance CC by adding counters. Like adding a healer with a CC cleanse/immunity buff and/or adding CC resistance (-50% duration?) to a tank (Rein or Roadhog?)


#11

The reason Rez is so powerful is because of the above stated issues between damage. In a lot of situations that appear in this game, dying through even the most powerful heal combinations is not uncommon. The amount of damage that gets pumped out when players cooperate with one another is truly astronomical and would even kill though Zenyatta’s Trancendance, not to mention all of the 1 shot kills in this game healing is not something DPS truly need to worry about when deciding who needs to die. It is a null factor, if we want that target dead, they will die. No healer can do anything about this scenario, they will die. Mercy is the only one who can however Reverse this situation completely. Which is why it is so powerful. The actual solution is to make other healers more comparable with such power. Increasing Brigittes Lucio’s and Zen’s heals in the values that I did still wont make those characters more appealing than a single Mercy. But, this is a step in the correct direction since it will open up the door for other supports to be picked together in pairs to complement one another in ways Mercy cannot offer. Understand the utility you gain from any combinations of 2 supports still does not rival the strengh of Rez. Because no matter how bad things get, no matter how you died, she can still Rez the player. It reverses a single mistake no matter how big or small. Value does not matter. Therefor if a target had 10k Hp, when Mercy rez’s that target they come back. She can allow teammates to die, knowing that she can Rez them if she cannot afford to keep them alive atm.

Because of how powerful it is as a utility, increasing the other areas of the entire supports tool kit that can actually Rival Mercy’s is heals. Decreasing her heals, and increasing everyone else’s increases the overall healing floor of the game, Since the worst healing supports are what define the bottom anyway.
Essentially, consider each support in the game had a stat bar which showed what they excel in.

  • Ana
  1. Heaing Potential- 8/10

  2. Damage potential- 6/10

  3. Utility- 4/10
    Total score- 18


  • Brigitte
  1. Healing Potential- 3/10

  2. Damage potential- 7/10

  3. Utility- 7/10
    Total Score- 17


  • Lucio
  1. Healing Potential- 4/10
  2. Damage Potential- 5/10
  3. Utility- 7/10
    Total Score- 16

  • Mercy
  1. Healing Potential- 8/10
  2. Damage Potential- 4/10
  3. Utility- 10/10
    Total Score- 22

  • Moira
  1. Healing Potential- 8/10
  2. Damage Potential- 6/10
  3. Utility- 3/10
    Total score- 17

  • Zenyatta
  1. Healing Potential- 3/10
  2. Damage Potential- 7/10
  3. Utility- 2/10
    Total Score-12

By adding Damage resistance and increasing heals, it results in less situations where you have a support that is aware of how bad the things are going to get, and decrease the number of deaths in this moment. As a result of less deaths, the overall utility of Rez goes down. Imagine, “We dont need a Mercy, my heal combo’s will keep you alive” Is what im going for! More power to the healers.

The purpose of the changes that I proposed is to put all healers in the game at an overall healing score of 5 or more. This is in an effort to make even the lowest total score 18 or higher. Because the strengths of these characters tool kits just do not justify how weak the other parts of their kit are, when you have abilities like Rez in the game. It is by far the strongest ability in this game, including ultimates. Because no matter how bad it got for you to die, she can always reverse it. Every other support just has to deal with the consequences.


#12

Rez is a one man advantage every 30 seconds. Which is good, but I wouldn’t say it’s better than most ults. Damage dealing and CC ults are less reliable than rez, but getting a three man advantage out of them isn’t uncommon. Lucio, Zen and Symmetra’s ults don’t necessarily create a swing on their own, but they can have a similar effect. (Though, both Lucio’s and Symm’s ults probably need balance tweaks; cast speed and charge rate, respectively). I’m not even convinced it’s stronger than a 1 second stun on a 6 second cooldown, but I digress.

I think making rez an ult would be fair. It’d be a little better than Ana’s ult, but I think that’s okay, because it would be more situational.


#13

The guys are Your Overwatch, even recognize that other supports having there mid game healing increased is probably the best way to slowly creep everyone else up to the same level as Mercy. But I think you are misinterpreting 1 very important thing. Mercy is the only truly balanced support character in a game where all of her competition is either flawed, or overshadowed by her. Moira is the only other support character who is truly balanced, but is currently overshadowed by Mercy. The rest of the supports actually just are not good enough. Zenyatta is in the worst spot of them all, however because he synergies with the the DPS to complement Mercy is why he is picked so often. This does not mean he is ok, it just means his pick rate is good. Having an offensive tool kit as a sniper and no way of going around a shield is terrible.

Hanzo is a perfect example of that, Grav + Dragon has always been in the game. But because of how inefficient Hanzo was, it made Grav + Dragon a null factor. Now that Hanzo has more mobility he became more viable, and now everyone is screaming nerf Grav + Dragon. Zarya ended up getting a Gravition nerf probably because of this meta. The Developers actually spend to much time factoring in Pick rate in establishing balance.

They actually said Zen is fine, when no he is not. He is a 200 health character, with no mobility, a support who has no way of healing himself, and no defensive capability what so ever. This is not ok in a game where high mobility character rein supreme. Even his main source of potential which, was his damage, is being mitigated by the enemies 2 tanks so what is he really doing? This is the exact same conclusion that both Philadelphia’s and London’s teams came to in their game.
Below are videos going into detail both of how Mercy is the ceiling of support picks, while the other is showing why Zen is in a very bad spot right now. Worse than Ana.

Then you have the batch of buffs coming to all hitscans in the game, and this next season is probably going to truly showcase just how bad healing actually is in this game. The healing floor needs to rise, which is hindsight brings Mercy down a decent level without actually nerfing her. I proposed adding Defense resistance to some healers to fix the issue of too much damage being done in this game. Which will not directly buff the heals so the characters who do damage slowly will not feel hopeless. Like Reinhardt pr Zarya.


#14

Remember that rez has a 75% slow along with a 1.75s cast time. Damage reduction and not regen in this state puts her at a greater disadvantage than if she had ressurect as her previous ultimate with invulnerability replaced with damage reduction.

A rezing Mercy with damage reduction in her current state would definitely remove her OP status but now she is unplayable because she is back to suicide rez again. No one is going to pick her if she is always dying to a rez. And yes I understand she should be behind a shield or wall but isnt this counter productive to all the hide n’ rez backlash that got us here in the first place? Now you want to give her suicide rez along with “protect me at all cost rez”?

A nice attempt and I do see what you are doing but I just dont see this iteration working in her favor if implemented.


#15

Its funny how you say this about her, but the OWL pro scene still picks her above all other supports. I dont think you understand how truly powerful this ability is, even with the few drawbacks it has. But at the same time, I never suggested to nerf Rez.


#16

There is too much misunderstanding of Lucio in this thread.

Ult issue: The single biggest barrier to Lucio’s viability isnt the duration of his ult, but the 0.8 second cast time. The second is the rate of ult generation. There is no solution which will help which does not address that cast timer. He is going to continue to wallow in unviable mode until that is addressed.

The other issue he has is survival, basically as a result of Brigitte and Moira both being direct counters, and his tiny leash range. 2 meters doesnt help, the PTR testing I have done has shown this, there is no measurable increase in maneuverability, survival, or healing between the PTR and live.

I have already given feedback on both of these issues, and it is clear that it has fallen on deaf ears, so I’ll look forward to yet another season of playing an F Tier hero, and hope they get it right next time, but Lucio is still dead.


#17

This is pretty much precisely what Lucio needs.


#18

The 0.8 Cast timer I believe to be intentional. And something the Dev,s probably wont change. Like deciding to give Zen mobility. But instead, focus on other things that you can control like how effective the ultimate ability is once it is cast. Right now, Lucio has the highest Ult cost in the game. Lucio’s Ultimate ability is ment to be versatile, meaning, he can use it to begin a push or secure it. Unlike Zenyatta’s ultimate which is to be used in a reactionary fashion. Because Lucio has more ways to utilize his ultimate effeciently it comes at the cost of being interrupted. As a lucio player… No, as a support player, taking the time to plan out when to utilize your ultimate ability is a skill that needs to be honed. Recognizing that if they do have a threat to you, avoiding line of sight with the threat should be done first. Which means you MUST plan to use it.
He does not have an ultimate ability where you just ‘pop it’ in order to keep everyone alive. If he did, he would have invulnerability and instant cast time like Zen. That is why focusing on making the ultimate better to compensate for the fact that be interrupted is the better approach because that is not the direction the developers look like they want to go in with that characters ultimate ability.

You cannot make the devs point a character in a direction they dont want them to go in. But, instead try to understand the direction to give feedback to get him there.


#19

He wasn’t actually designed the way he is now. Originally, he dispatched half of his shields immediately, and the other half on completion.

He happens to be the single biggest victim of global changes targeting other players, and when they made ults losable on interrupt to stop Genji from getting killed during his animation and respawning with his ult, Lucio ended up suffering the penalty.

The concept that Lucio is supposed to use his ult to protect against burst damage cannot be logically consolidated with the fact that his cast time does not allow him to survive that which he is supposed to counter.

In other words, if it is intended, then it is literally just a cruel joke as the audio notification of incoming burst damage is either instant or easy controllable, or is a horrible choice based on not thinking through that which is required to use the ultimate as intended.


#20

The biggest problem with your approach, which I would agree with except that the balancing notes indicated that it is intended as a tool to survive burst ultimates. If that is the case, then the cast time needs reworking. If a more versatile protection/tide turner skill is intended, the ult generation/duration needs addressing, but it is neither now, it is just a “I dont know what I want to be” skill.