GO to the training ground. test all those heroes with body shots only. Time the TTK.
Kiriko has a fairly low ROF, and low damage. Lucio shoots in bursts, so does genji. Mercy has a fairly high rate of fire and its mercy. Ana does not have lower base damage the kiri, what are you smoking? Also ana can’t headshot.
You are just factually wrong. Just flat out wrong. You could EASILY just open the game and test it yourself.
Mercy - 20 dmg per bullet, 5 bullets per second, 100dps for body shots, she can crit.
Lucio - 20 dmg per projectile, 80 dmg per volley for bodyshots, 1 burst per .93 seconds for 86.5 dps + an extra 25 damage with boop every 4 seconds for a total of 92.7 dps for bodyshots alone. He can crit.
Genji - 27 damage per projectile, 3 round burst. 81 dmg per burst. Left click is 92 dps for body shots, right click is 119dps for body shots. He can crit.
Ana - 0 falloff sniper when scoped, 75 dmg per shot, 1 shot every .8 seconds for ~93.75 dps with body shots, plus grenade which does damage, heals, and applies a healing buff/anti. Cannot crit.
Kiriko - 40 damage per body shot, 1 shot every .5 seconds, 72.72 dps for body shots, no other way of dealing damage. She can crit.
She is the lowest base damage and fires less than 2 rounds per second so she is weaker than the rest if she’s only landing body shots and heavily punished for missing a single shot. Yes, she requires skill.
If you want to give her a 2x multiplier, that’s fine, but it’d need to come with an increase of her base damage to 60 per kunai to keep her in line with the other healers’ base damage.
But it’s not a “duel” if it’s a 2v1. I know people tend to forget that Mercy is actually being played by someone because she so “easy” and “braindead”, but she IS in fact a person on your team. Want a proper “duel”? Get one of your supports to follow you in for a proper 2v2.
Yes, there is. You can easily bait her into using it if you know what you’re doing.
She literally does, read up on her abilities. She does not have the ability to sit in the back and be a decent support like Lifeweaver or Baptiste, she has to be in the front swinging her flail because her inspire ability is triggered by dealing damage and her flail doesn’t have the range to allow her to sit in the backline.
Still has to be on top of the team member and the animation is still slow. I play Mercy, I’ve rezzed so many players and yeah, I get punished for it easily by competent players who spot me. Do I sometimes get the rez off anyway in those situations? Yes, but I’ve also died just before it casts because they’re smart enough to do something about it.
Yeah, because she’s unfortunately really strong in really specific situations and giving her flat buffs would make her already strong niche even stronger.
I don’t play Sym really so it is just my opinion though. But I do think aiming to make her a bit less niche is the only way to make her stronger overall.
I’m sorry. Was that logic you just posted? How dare you.
Agreed.
That’s very fair.
Also hi Paws, always nice to see you.
That has nothing to do with her having a 3x multiplier on her headshots…
Very high headshot damage relatively speaking*
Though let’s take a look at DPS, shall we? Kiriko does 218.2 DPS per second hitting all head shots, Genji does 184.1 hitting all head shots.
Keep in mind Genji is a DPS.
Lucio does 172 DPS
Ana does 127.1 DPS
Mercy does 200 DPS
All of these heroes do less DPS when hitting all headshots, and to add insult to injury they are all less consistent and reliable to hit because they travel slower (outside of Ana but she can’t crit).
The only benefit they have is Genji and Lucio shoot in bursts, however, Lucio’s projectiles are way slower and easier to see so easier to dodge. Genji’s also move considerably slower than Kiriko’s. 33% slower to be exact and he is a DPS so in theory, he should be well above Kiriko in DPS when it comes to headshots.
Yes, Kiriko does lower DPS when doing just body shots, but she isn’t DPS and shouldn’t need large compensation to boost her damage.
At the most you just make her body shots deal more damage instead of making it so she can 2-shot squishies which is not a breakpoint a support should be able to reliably or consistently reach.
Her base damage isn’t the main issue. The issue is her being able to 2-shot squishies, regardless of it taking skill or not.
60 would be too much, that would be the equivalent to a straight buff since her headshots would still do 120 damage
But sure, buff her base to maybe 45 or something, just as long as she is not able to 2-shot squishies.
And also make sure to get the rest of her kit in line with Lucio and Mercy as well because her kit is loads more versatile than either of them since she has easily one of the best escape abilities (along with wall climb) and the ability to make people invulnerable.
Kiriko isn’t hitting consistent headshots, though. That’s why the 3x multiplier is there - because it doesn’t happen often but when she does hit them, it’s not laughable damage. It’s supposed to be daunting and it’s supposed to get people off of her
Lucio has boop for extra burst.
Ana has nade for extra burst.
Kiriko literally only has her Kunai.
Can literally bring a person back from the dead, has damage boost, the highest mobility of any suport (aside from maybe Lucio, could go either way), and a triple dip into passive health regen with healer passive, her own regen passive, and self healing from healing allies.
Is way more mobile than Kiriko and isn’t team reliant in order to use it, does AoE healing, can knock back on a 4 second CD, and offers a speed boost.
Ana has a sleep dart that can stop many ultimates and nade which does aoe damage and healing, amps healing, and applies anti, which is the strongest debuff in the game and it’s on a lower cooldown than Suzu.
Kiriko’s only utility is Suzu (it’s very strong, but it’s also a 14 second cd and only lasts for .85 seconds) and her high burst potential with her right click.
I’m excluding ultimates because those aren’t base kit.
Relative to?
With his left click. With his right click it’s 238 ish?
Zenyatta does… 240 dps for left click headshots and he can do right click burst headshot for 480 dmg nearly instantly when released. Mind you, that’s without discord orb. With discord it’s 300dps for left click headshots and a 600 dmg volley from right click. His base bodyshot damage is 120dps, 150 on discord targets. Oh, and he can heal while doing that.
Dude, its like you can’t read or something. Test their body shots.
We keep telling you the compensating balance factor for kirikos headshot damage is that her normal damage is really low. Thats waht balances it.
But you can’t fathom not hitting headshots i guess?
Its a slow ROF, its an awkward projectile and not hit scan, and requires two headshots, which is tricky (or lucky) to pull off. Its fine dude. I play alot of support, and im WAY more constitantly deadly with bap, lucio, zenny and moira than kiri. Those kunai headshots are tricky, got like a weird travel speed that messes with me lol.
YOu’re freaking out over kiri’s damage potential when she’s rarely played that way.
Yeah this is true. Some support abilities are strong, so they’re also a deterrent just having them in their kit.
There’s truth to both sides of the argument though. Supports have some powerful abilities because they are target priority. If they didn’t have powerful abilities, well they’d have to buff their damage and turn them into better plain DPS heroes. Which people would also complain about.
Tanks have the worst time of it because they alone soak up 80+% of the CC. This wouldn’t be as strong of an issue had they just kept the second tank.
Those ‘OP’ abilities on the support line-up were all designed around having 2 tanks to be targeted by them. Designed to be defending the support hero’s against 2 tanks.
I think this may be near impossible to balance properly without bringing back the second tank. Or severely nerfing them, which leaves supports incredibly vulnerable. Then we’d have an issue where nobody plays support.
I feel that’s a totally fair perspective on it, so I appreciate you diving into it.
Tanks have it the worst, and I can agree with that. At the same time, I have to actively remember they have most of the CC in the game…so if they were immune to CC, the idea that they can dish out a lot of CC and not take any scares me lol.
That’s really the downside of an all-or-nothing situation with tanks and only having 1. >_< There’s no “happy” solution here without a 2nd tank.
Tanking feels bad as a single tank. Sure, you’re more bosslike than OW1, but it often devolves into rock, paper, scissors against the other tank. To me it can often feel like I have to choose between peeling for my backline or trying to make space and it’s very stressful trying to balance that.
Yeah that’s a good point about being immune to CC while being the primary ones who have hard CC. Like a jailor and warden. Some might think it’s unfair but it’s honestly necessary for the masochist who queued tank. 
I think the only really deadly CC outside of tank is sleep. Technically boop is situationally deadly but who walks near ledges and doesn’t have ptsd about being booped?
Pharah and Echo mains!
I think that’s why the devs don’t want to nerf supports, and many keep complaining about why supports are too OP. They have to be OP to heal the team and fend off attackers themselves, because the lone tank needs to make the space.
True! Hopefully that doesn’t cloud the danger of it if you flex onto something else 
Correction: Supports whose name doesn’t start with L are a problem.
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I want Lucio to get some buff lovin. Just a smidge.