Holy heck. You actually further buffed a suggestion that was already massively OP.
Stop comparing Bastion’s Sentry gun to Soldier’s rifle.
I’m sorry, I think Bastion could use some help, but you just may as well ask for a death ray.
I hope you’re being sarcastic(wouldn’t be surprised if you were serious)
In other news, what if Bastion had a Death ray in sentry?
How is it massively OP? It wasn’t massively OP before his rework, and this is slightly worse than back then… Before, he was pinpoint accurate for the first little bit of his fire and it grew to 2° after around a second or so, this one starts at not pinpoint accurate, and spreads out fairly quick.
And Soldier is the other sustained automatic fire character, it makes sense to compare it to him. They aren’t directly related, but it can be useful to know what the “normal” spread values are…
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It’s not massively OP.
Some people think Current Bastion is somehow OP.
It just goes to show the difference between assumptions and experience.
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No, that’s a thing… Sombra is getting infinite invis and translocator time…
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Yup. It’s Confirmed:
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that’s essentially the stats he had before the rework and it wasn’t OP so I think you just entirely forgot how it worked before.
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Slightly worse. Less headshot damage, and less accurate to begin with… I went ahead and did the calculations for 0.75° spread as well:
05m : 0.43 foot diamater
10m : 0.86 foot diamater
15m : 1.29 foot diamater
20m : 1.72 foot diamater
25m : 2.15 foot diamater
30m : 2.58 foot diamater
35m : 3.01 foot diamater
40m : 3.44 foot diamater
45m : 3.87 foot diamater
50m : 4.30 foot diamater
55m : 4.72 foot diamater
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Of course this is a thing that is happening…
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I genuinely wish it wasn’t…
For both our, and Sombra main’s sake.
Could be fun tho… But definitely not “balanced”
Because it’s not before his rework, which buffed other aspects.
Because you want to add a base tank mode atop it.
But most importantly because it wasn’t ‘pinpoint’? It had a minimum and reached full MUCH quicker than 1.3 sec. More like half a second. (I want to say it was 1 degree min. But I can’t find the actual number referenced anymore.)
You are giving him considerably better overall accuracy for that initial 1.3 seconds. Which means better damage on targets at range without headshots, and landing more of them with. Even with a .5 reduction in multiplier it’s more powerful if you have any trigger discipline.
you can’t use sentry or recon at the same time as tank so that’s really not an argument.
The idea is we’d probably give up stuff like the faster transform or ammo or ironclad. I’d prefer to revert the transform speed and that’s it if we did anything like a buff to sentry.
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Honestly Chibi, along with some bug fixes, this buff is essentially the Sombra version of Tank on E; it was a concept that Sombra mains knew would help her, and non-Sombra mains thought was ridiculously OP. Sombra players rallied for it nonstop nonetheless, though. They got it.
So if anything, it means that even the “OP” concepts that mains of F-tier heroes constantly rally for and support with evidence can come true. I’m happy for the Sombra community; they came and left Bastion-tier in only a few months, but at least it’s one more hero that doesn’t have to share our everlasting nightmare
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I un-buffed those aspects… Ironclad as a passive is now gone. Bastion only gets Ironclad when repairing, which he can only do for 4 seconds.
Okay…? How does that affect Sentry?
I don’t know the old values for the time it took to reach maximum spread, but I know Soldier’s is roughly a second, maybe a bit more. Again, he’s the closest thing we have to compare to for these types of things. And his old maximum spread was 2°, and the minimum was pinpoint.
If I am wrong on this, though I’m pretty sure I’m not, I’d be fine with starting it at 1° and going up to 2° from there.
Like you said, I also couldn’t find any numbers on his old spread. I’m just going off of what I remember (which is somewhat limited, because I didn’t play him quite as much as I do now back then, and it’s been a long time), and what I’ve been told by others.
He only has good accuracy for 0.3 seconds. After that, it ramps up just like every other automatic hitscan in the game. And if a player has trigger discipline, they should be rewarded for that. Bastion is always going to be a “spray and pray” character if he isn’t rewarded for aim, tracking, and spread control. Those are skills. The point of this is to make Bastion more skill-based.
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They don’t seem to be… I assumed they’d instantly think it was a garbage buff, and that “Sombra will be useless now”, and it looks like I was right, at least for a fair amount of them… I’ve seen a couple threads about that
Not being able to use them at the same time is what isn’t an argument.
Can he use Recon and Sentry at the same time? No. Are you saying that having a Recon rifle mode isn’t of benefit to him? We could just take it away, all he does is walk out of Sentry.
How about if we gave Widow an ability to draw 1 set of Reaper’s shotguns. She can’t use them at the same time as her rifle. That wouldn’t be a buff?
You wouldn’t be asking for it if it wasn’t supposed to be a buff to him. Because I can’t use X while using Y, doesn’t mean having Y as an option isn’t beneficial.
The only one of those that’s any real trade-off would be losing IC. Completely. And even then you’re still leaving him with all the other buffs, PLUS a better overall Sentry gun.
Which…you didn’t address that part.
you said adding tankmode on top of another buff to a different mode as if they could be used at the same time. It’ll make him more powerful but a buff to sentry won’t effect tank or the other way around.
Sure, remove ironclad. Some people want that anyways so I’m absolutely fine with that.
And? That’s the point of a buff. To make a hero more powerful. You’re saying adding more positives than negatives is bad but THAT’S THE POINT OF A BUFF. Also 1.5 seconds to transform into sentry is still a huge tradeoff outside of ironclad.
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No, I was saying it as if considering all the parts. Not just one. I’m sorry if that was unclear on my part.
But buffs to Sentry and Tank can’t be treated like the combination of buffs doesn’t matter because they aren’t in use at the same time. That was the point.
I don’t mean better than now, better overall Sentry than it was even pre-rework.
In other words compared to pre rework;
Buffed Recon (retained)
Buffed healing (retained)
Buffed Sentry (overall better than it was)
Gains Tank mode as a base ability
New Ult to buff all the modes. (basically, his current ult plus options)
He didn’t and doesn’t need that much buffing over what he was.
If it raises the overall skill ceiling, then… Yes.
Bastion might just need THAT Much, to be even Viable In higher ranks…
Unless you are against Bastion being Viable in higher ranks for some reason… In which case…
Aka, Recon that can actually hit the target you are firing at… Old recon was a MESS.
Even Roadhog Was buffed, so he could move while healing… There is no place in this game anymore for static based healing.
Those two things are the only good things to come out of the failed “Rework”
And even at that, what Else They did during that rework, left Bastion nearly unplayable. So to include them in some kind of “Buff list” Is a moot point.
At most i would consider those two “Buffs” QOL By today’s standards.
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The devs said that’s why they changed it, because sentry was still underpowered before and died too fast. Honestly, what they could have done was only add 20% ironclad to old sentry and it would have been perfect. One more rocket/grenade/arrow/whatever else does 120 damage to kill without excessive protection. This means his transform speed would have still been 1.5 seconds and his ammo would be 200.
What’s wrong with having tank on E though? Most everyone has all buttons filled so he’s one of the few missing an ability and this would provide a little bit of versatility and small burst as well as he already has 3 modes. It doesn’t make sense to lock one of them behind his ultimate.
Basically, it works well with his kit without direct effects on eachother (the mobility indirectly effects the other modes without other massive overlaps).
It makes sense and would fill the missing spot and would allow you to use all of his modes.
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