I want to point out that I don’t believe I ever stated that the system is unfair. I just said that the system is “difficult” because it forces players to play more matches, which in turn from wonky matchmaking could result in lopsided games, which in turn frustrates a player to make claims that climbing is impossible.
I apologize if my comment made it seem like that was my intention. I am not sure why you have started accusing me of claiming that the system is forcing players to stay at their rank. I have never said that in this post, and even if I did it would not make much sense since I am climbing.
None of that was directed at you. I realize a lot of that was second person (featuring the use of “you”), but it was a stylistic choice, as though talking directly to the people in question, rather than literally addressing you; in hindsight more than a little confusing.
This is what always happens to me as well. Sometimes you get many consecutive games where you are clearly on the better or worse team causing long streaks where your personal performance in those games is largely irrelevant to the outcome.
But if you autopilot too much during a win streak and end up losing one of the easy games as a result, the system flags you as boosted and will switch you over to the worse team instead.
Then you have to either play absolutely insane (by your own standards) and nearly mistake free or get very lucky in order to win one of those games and break the curse. It doesn’t really matter what your SR is during such games, you can get free wins in diamond or hard af games in silver depending on what the matchmaker has decided your fate shall be.
Agreed, nobody actually thinks climbing is impossible, it’s a figure of speech. The matchmaker is just simply broken and has been proven objectively to be broken.
At this point in the games life cycle i dont think it really matters. Enough people have complained and or left the game over the years due to MM that its safe to say it should be scrapped. They could simply migrate to a microsoft trueskill type and we would all be better for it.
Like I believe in general you can climb. However I also believe it’s easier to climb during some system variables. When the variables are against you, it takes a miracle to actually climb.
Two accounts 600 sr apart. The system variables set after:
long play time
grouped up with a person you could consider smurfing
playing during a skin event while having a lot of play time
recently having a loss streak
primarily only in the morning
We’re any of these considered? No, I was accused of tanking the second account or tilting extra hard - all the while providing replays I didn’t tank and had phenomenal games of high skill and stats (4 replay codes!! And one thread reassuring I was absolved of wrong doing!) and re-assuring I was NOT tilting.
Hilarious
The lower account is having a “bad day”. This “bad day” has lasted almost 6 months now ever since dropping 500 sr on its own.
The other account. OOOPs I got it up to 2409. And the Genji (my worst toon is 50% with 8 games).
I simply don’t understand why people who are “open minded” can’t even consider the system may not openly prevent you from climbing but might be so inaccurate, or having case scenarios that it may think are 50/50 games aren’t - but for multiple multiple games in a row.
The effects of tilt are often exaggerated by the anti-riggers. It makes sense that if you are playing worse than normal, you could lose several games playing against the same skill level. But since you are also dropping in SR as you lose, your games should be getting easier instead of more difficult.
If I tilt in chess for example, I may drop 100-200 elo but I would rarely lose to anyone below that because that is approaching my worst possible performance level. In overwatch you can drop 500-1000 SR in a short time while putting up decent stats and still be put in borderline unwinnable games. Not to mention there are also a decent amount of players who actually play better when upset because it makes them try even harder.
600 is far but not unreasonable when it comes to inaccuracies at this point. depends on the player i guess. ive always felt that a spread of 250 in either direction should be expected for myself (for a total of around 500 at the most inconsistent) when playing a high # of games. for me around 30-50 is enough to smooth out chances encounters
you can tighten that range by being more consistent but it’s diminishing returns and it’s a matter of do you find it worth it and fun. you’re playing against 11 people bringing tons of unknowns i would say just take the 600 and be glad you’re not one of those noobs that has a 1k spread x)
chess is inherently more consistent by design and while there are dishonest players i would be shocked if the % of dishonesty in chess even came close to ow ranked the last few months
your perspective of fluctuating ~200 in chess lines up with what other people seem to talk about of around 150-250 (go figure they talk about long win and loss streaks in those communities too ). inflate it to match ow SR scale and it’s what, 300-500ish? depends a bit on how you choose to relate the two
for me, approaching that range from my average feels like an incredibly stacked chance to win (or lose LMAO). quite a few games beyond that range i mentioned to sgt… but i suppose everyone has a different experience with it. i have seen people say they can’t win in bronze and climb in diamond.
Update: my “bad day account” quite suddenly clouds parted and now on a 9 game win streak. It seems my “bottom” was 1740.
Its not that the match maker is bad, its that there is something wrong with it. Like its not implemented correctly for special conditions. And when something trips, you quite possibly get the worse teammates you can possible - for multiple multiple multiple games in a row.
oh and I found yet another account (I was looking at old highlights and saw an account name I hadnt played in awhile), yup you guessed it, that account 2100. So why was I caught down in 1740s? oh yes… “bad day” (sssss)…
And the only plausible explanation was that I was tanking it on purpose. Hey, honor system, I was not.
So seriously. After playing with Zax, why would I go on a massive losing streak? Lets dig into the MMR. Was my sigma too narrow? were my variables still averaged with Zax even though we didnt group up? I wonder if Zax didnt even play until recently and thus “uncoupling” our MMRs? You see where I am going? There is an implementation issue - and its help causing streaks.
Bob…. How many accounts are you going to buy, only to complain about the game?
So much for voting with your wallet.
Zax was a high Diamond player back when he cared.
I doubt his MMR is even remotely similar to what it was at his peel, but I’m willing to bet it’s still higher than yours.
If you win a bunch of games while grouped, the game is uncertain (as you like to flex ) of where you’re really supposed to be.
Perhaps your SR is too high for your MMR since we know you can win games without increasing MMR.
So to maintain mathematical correlation, the game puts you against a team who’s MMR represents your current SR and expects you to perform at that level.
I love this game and as you know possibly addicted. And this game was one of the worse “pay model “ yet we keep the lights management. So buy an account for purposes at $20 bucks. No problem!
I know you love putting me down. Constantly reminding me how low my mmr is. But for your information he was using his bronze tank account. So his mmr had to be lower (since it’s a range of -3 to 3).
I might need some numbers to help me understand.
Paragraph 1:
If his sr was bronze and mine was 1900 at the time, our averaged as a group was near 1500? (Maybe even 1700s where I started winning again).
Now your assuming my mmr didn’t change when we won 3~5 games, but my sr did climed to 2k. Thus indicating a new individual mmr.
Paragraph 2.
Now solo, but mmr still around 1900, but sr now in low 2ks.
My teammates? Low mmr?
My opponents? High mmr?
This is where it breaks down a bit. You would think I had high mmr but low sr, forcing low mmr for my teammates. But my opponents could all have the same or just lower than mine but higher than my teammates but the “teams” average out to give it that 50/50 feel (oh goodness don’t get me started on role average vs team avg mmr - it would prevent this).
Also using “mmr” maybe misleading but stripping out the actual “skill” of mmr.
It’s real late for me, but all this goes to my point. It’s about the implementation being off. Also this 1 hypothetical is assuming my mmr didn’t change during those games with Zax. Which goes a little off rails if “mmr chases your sr”. Of course not specified chases down or up.
Rhainsict has said a quite a long while ago, he stopped playing competitive because the games (aka matchmaker) are not any good anymore. So keep that in mind when taking what he said with a grain of salt. He tries to back the matchmaker, but at the same time won’t play because the games he is matched with aren’t good for his liking. Funny stuff actually.
). inflate it to match ow SR scale and it’s what, 300-500ish? depends a bit on how you choose to relate the two
) of where you’re really supposed to be.
