I fully agree. But Stevo? Can you please do us all a favor and either make your profile public so people can see what “good” accuracy with your primary is, or at least post here telling us what it is?
Based on the math I have done the tipping point for accuracy to make 3.0 beam better than 2.0 (not counting armor interactions which makes it need to be even higher but hard to guess as to exactly how high) is that 75% accuracy needs a colossal 8 seconds of use to break even.
Which is pretty bad considering the highest accuracy I have seen anyone have without a private profile is 72%. What exactly is your accuracy if we may inquire?
Edit: Updated with corrected math. Major apologies to everyone who saw the first post version. Just goes to show anyone can make math errors if don’t double check themselves.
I messed up my math. Huge apologies. Realized the numbers couldn’t be right almost as soon as I had posted. I rechecked figures and updated.
Actual Formula includes a second by second differential of gained and lost damage. 7 seconds was how long hitting 15 times out of 20 (75%) actually took to catch up and 8 seconds to overtake the 2.0 beam.
75% Accuracy Only Figures:
End of second 1: 3.0 leads by 15
End of second 2: Even
End of second 3: 2.0 leads by 30
End of second 4: 2.0 leads by 60
End of second 5: 2.0 leads by 40
End of second 6: 2.0 leads by 20
End of second 7: Even
End of second 8: 3.0 leads by 20
Edit: Adding 67% and 50% Accuracy for Comparison
67% Accuracy Only Figures:
End of second 1: 3.0 leads by 10.2
End of second 2: 2.0 leads by 9.6
End of second 3: 2.0 leads by 49.2
End of second 4: 2.0 leads by 88.8
End of second 5: 2.0 leads by 88.2
End of second 6: 2.0 leads by 87.6
End of second 7: 2.0 leads by 87
End of second 8: 2.0 leads by 86.4
(15 additional seconds would be needed to overcome based off this rate of .6 per second gain. So 23 seconds total.)
50% Accuracy Only Figures:
End of second 1: Even
End of second 2: 2.0 leads by 30
End of second 3: 2.0 leads by 90
End of second 4: 2.0 leads by 150
End of second 5: 2.0 leads by 180
End of second 6: 2.0 leads by 210
End of second 7: 2.0 leads by 240
End of second 8: 2.0 leads by 270
(It only continues to get worse at same pace…)
Nope. The above only counts for the actual accuracy versus ramp up time factors. Because the exact amount of armor needed to burn through before hitting “regular” health varies I do not even want to touch that issue here. I’ve briefly spoken about it elsewhere though.
In other words people, using my numbers only means a 75% accuracy Sym would need 7 seconds to equal Sym 2’s beam damage only if fighting someone like Soldier. It would take far longer to equal the old 2.0 damage if fighting say Orisa.
Of course, if there is an enemy shield / barrier just lying around somewhere you can just ‘feed’ on it for the first 4 seconds. Then even a 67% accuracy would break even from the beginning… but that still requires surviving the shield leech for 4 seconds before hand.
I’m not making a “git gud” argument. Some of them may be physically unable to increase their accuracy. I’m pointing out that the anger comes from their inability to be successful without auto aim. You may not be able to see the difference, but it’s there.
Can the numbers be tweaked to eliminate the difference in effectiveness? Of course. If her beam did 1000 dps, auto aim wouldn’t materially impact effectiveness. Sure, there’s a number in between where the effectiness may even out between Sym 2.0 and Sym 3.0. But that doesn’t mean it should.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the anger stems solely from that alone, but more along the lines of the issue with the character being changed alienated a portion of the playerbase who desired a character who did not require such a steep aiming requirement, and could still manage to contribute.
The “git gud” mentality shouldn’t apply, because anyone could select that character and play her if they so chose.
The problem was the negative perception around the character in general. “No aim, no brain, get gains!”
/shrug
I thought Sym 2.0 was fine the way she was. She only needed a couple of tweaks to make her perfectly viable on attack or defense, namely the tossable turrets. The HP buff would have been nice, but with 6 turrets it would have been too much. Had they reduced her turrets to 3, given them the hp buff, she would have been perfectly fine and would have been arguably better.
I tended to agree that it was OP. Obliterated so many enemy teams and won comp games as a result.
But the highest tier players did not use Sym because even the 2 seconds needed to ramp up was too long, and because 120 dmg for tracking a full second was considered bad at the highest levels where the other dps all had twitch headshot .1s kill accuracy / timing.
Which was of course why Blizzard devs in their utter Brilliance decided to answer the issue of taking too long to ramp up by doubling ramp up times, and the issue of not enough damage to overcome faster dps times due to head crits was answered by giving a top damage too lower to compare even with great accuracy.
Video 1. I’m AT THEIR FRONT DOOR picking them off BY MYSELF. How in the hell is that relatively safe when any or all of them could have run up on me as soon as I killed Mercy? I’m in sleep dart LOS and ice beam range and I Deadeyed right in their faces.
Video 2. I literally walk through the choke, flash Rein’s feet, and proceed to kill 4/6 of their team while navigating to point A. Again, what safety did I have while using naked Deadeye on low ground? On second point, I once again walked through the front door and got 6 kills while my team attempted to take the point. Both times I went high ground there was a DVA who could’ve pressed me while I had no healer, but she was scared because I wasn’t missing.
Video 4. I’m at their spawn by myself on multiple occasions, killing 3 to 4 people on every engagement, hence the 17 solo kills. I had no tank or healer near me for several engagements. There was nothing “relatively safe” about my playstyle in those videos. I just don’t miss often enough to get run over unless I’m playing against t500 who know how to instantly delete Mccree.
The sweet sweet moment when you’re at full charge after loading up for eons, managing to avoid rein bulldozing you and swinging you to death and manage to pop rein’s shield and start to melt him… only for him to get a nanoboost at 50hp and waste you and ana practically shouting behind him “thanks for the free nanoboost!” because all you did was waste time and fed her since you still can’t burst.
And then you wonder why you don’t just play Hanzo so you could actually waste the rein in one cooldown even if they got heals, get to all the high ground places symm can get too and actually be useful dps with a good ulti and spam ability and non-trash damage.
Aka, symm damage potential is horrid and she has no burst at all. Her utility is gimmick that nobody bothers to use. Her damage is mostly trash damage with little pick potential. Half of it comes from super long cd turrets that get destroyed in one swing. No survivability at all, atrocious for a dps hero. She even lacks a dps ultimate to make up for her shortcomings as a dps hero, at this point she’d need better ulti than Genji lol.
But I guess we all just need to git gud at using primary and ignore this clusterf of a character design and how weak she is. And anybody getting use of her primary should honestly just play Zarya.
Mine is off on everyone except Widow because my Widow is mediocre. It’s probably just lag because aim is strict on characters like Baby DVA, Sym, and Ana. Trust me, if aim assist were that strong, then console players wouldn’t struggle with Pharah so much.
You spend almost all of your time at mid to far range, or duck and cover peekaboo firing. The only time you stand out in the open within melee-ish range is when you roll forward and stun bomb… where upon you instantly KO your enemy.
That is a COMPLETELY different experience than having to stay up front in their face as Sym staying within 12m or less, without a stun, and not being able to play peekaboo because you have to keep the beam on not take a single shot then hide until next shot.
I am not criticizing your play in any of the 4 videos or saying you were wrong to play like that. What I am saying though is that Symmetra does not play like that with her beam. With her orbs? Sure that’s optimal way of playing more or less.
But her beam just can not function like that. And it is the beam that you are trying to claim is great. And which I just got through proving that even 75% takes 7 seconds just to equal the same damage totals as old Sym 2.0 beam did. And that is before we get into the mess that is armor interactions in the 3.0 beam.
Here is an exercise for thought I want you to try…
Imagine standing within melee distance of an enemy team for 7 seconds nonstop with only 200 hp and no stun. Would you do it? Could you do it and live? That is what Sym beam play is like. Until you do that you have no idea what the beam is like.
