Stage 2 = Goats. When a balance team tries to nerf a meta


Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you for about three replies now. I just like to reminisce upon the past because I keep a lot of data like that noted down, and people often forget how stuff was in the past.


an eternal blizzard fanboi.

take a look at what the pros and analysts are saying lol. people are only playing DPS now because they are tired of playing GOATS and have actually run out of patience waiting on blizzard to change the meta.

stage 2 will come back with winston goats and this game will be right back in the crapper lol.


ah i gotcha lol. i will admit, i was interpreting it as you disagreeing this whole time (not because of anything you said - i just expect it out of a forum lol). i bet a lot of people don’t remember the “good old days” when people haven’t fully imposed their will on the game to forge a meta. balancing back then vs now is… very different. i often find myself stuck thinking about the game about two years ago, late triple tank hog meta and the short period right after it ended.

blizzard, or I guess more specifically team 4 since i don’t play many other blizzard games, is pretty good at throwing out curveball solutions for problems. whether or not they’ve had a good track record…i guess that’s up in the air. BUT, maybe they’ve got some good ideas in the works to encourage people to play the game how they had always hoped. hopefully some ideas that satisfy both sides of the community. by sides I mean regarding being locked into a role vs being free to play any role.


zp mentions more changes to dva? dva is already being swapped out for sombra in many different situations.


honestly you dont even need to oneshot tanks, you just need to oneshot zarya. she’s one of the squishiest tanks, luckily. ever since grav/dragon meta started and people started throwing shade at zarya for feeling broken, i had tried to point out how the lack of a 400hp burst is what made zarya seem so broken, not particularly anything about her as a character. without zarya, goats is useless (well, mostly, dive goats still works but normal goats is objectively stronger head to head). without a 400hp burst… zarya is practically untouchable in goats. she got a loooooot stronger with the pulse nerf.

pulsebomb was actually stellar at punishing over-aggressive zaryas who waste their personal bubbles. a shame that it was on tracer, because if it was on a less mobile character it probably wouldn’t have been nerfed and we’d probably have seen less zarya. scatter was pretty good too in that regard.


The dev team have my trust, in general. The game is much more balanced and enjoyable to play than the forums make you believe. I mean, I quit six months ago, and I still stick around the forums to theorycraft, still watch OWL, and still play now and then when friends invite me over.

But it’s exactly why I like to look at spreadsheets and stuff like that, that I keep entering threads like that and reminding people that they are trying to solve a math problem with a thesaurus.

If you have free time, I advise to take a look at Wyoming’s dev quote collection. There is so much good stuff there, and most of that is buried in lost threads.


This heroes are all fairly balanced in a 2/2/2 setting. This means that the issues are on a more fundamental level- that the three roles are poorly balanced relative to each other.


If Brigitte is useless outside of GOATS and simultaneously the cause of GOATS, that shows just how badly a rework is needed.



The reasoning behind his suggestion is because heroes that Goats should be weak weak to – ranged / spam heroes like Junkrat and Pharah – are both countered pretty heavily by The reason teams are able to get away with swapping for Sombra is because there is no real spam damage for DM to absorb in a Goats vs. Goats setup.

Personally, I’d be happier if she could stay a support. I know everyone’s gonna parrot the dps thing because Samito said it, but we have so few supports as is and to my understanding, many dps players would rather play an actual, mechanically involved dps hero. So if she’s going to get re-worked, let’s make her into a healthy version of what she was meant to be: an anti-dive support.



as multiple analysts and pros have said, they just made goats even better


No, but stacking defensive ults, aoe healing and combining them with high hp heroes is the problem. The existance of 3-3 goats makes other comps less optimale. So far patches have been “great” at nerfing GOATS comp while also nerfing tanks and supports previously thought fine, in 2-2-2 comp.


Solution: buff Pharah


GO.A.T.S. is easy to swap out of. With zen goats, you just need one player to flex to mccree to counter pharah hard and the enemy team now has to switch both mercy and pharah - putting them at disadvantage in terms of ult economy. However, that’s not even necessary as discorded pharah is countered by


Its not just Brig.
Goats simply cant work without Lucio. And Lucio+Brig with aoe heals, while having a tanky protect comp can keep people alive long enough, and provide enough healing.
You can blame Brig, but the fact of the matter is the only reason it works is having those 2 together, theres a reason double sniper was the go to comp before the big support patch, where both Ana and Lucio received buffs, even though Brig was in the game long before that, and was exclusively played as an anti dive (anti tracer really), and not much else.
Just blaming Brig for it is at the very least reductive and simply refusing to see the big picture.


goats might be the hardest balance challenge the devs have ever faced.
It’s such an entertwined comp, with abilities that completely cover for eachother.
You can’t just nerf the heroes, because individually they are balanced or underpowered, but together they become monsters.

They obviously want to avoid making heroes utterly useless outside of goats and even then, that wasn’t enough (see brig).

Also, brig is very much still the centerpiece of the comp, along with lucio.


The devs are in a tricky spot. Make Brig worthless and we have dive again. I think they want to achieve a rough balance between goats and dive, and I think much of that hinges on how DVa and Brig are handled.


Metas take a while to form, calm yourself. 3 dps is proving to be pretty strong too


Both Winston and Lucio received massive buffs in a patch that was meant to take GOATs down a notch.

I don’t really care, since I think it’s a super fun meta, both to play and to watch, but I swear developers don’t play their own game when they make contradictive patches like this. Unless it’s a Grand Scheme™ patch that lays the groundwork for future balancing (eg the boop and beam changes), it’s pretty confusing.


Just adjust how healing stacking works and it’ll reign goats in. The fact that lucio aura and brig aura stack combined with other heals or ana nade just makes healing stupid strong. The tanks and dps aren’t the problem. It’s how strong healing has become in the game. It’ll only get worse the more healers they add. People complain about power creep but nobody complains about heal creep.


Winston GOATs is going to be the new thing and it isn’t as dependent on speed boost as Rein GOATS.

While speed boost was important, lucio’s boop was equally important at high levels.

People should keep complaining about Brig until something is done to her to actually make a difference, which will likely be a reworked hero or a 2-2-2 lock where she could actually be buffed. In 3/3 her impact is what allows the comp to function and removing her would remove the comp without any other balance changes

You can’t because it is so reliant on her stuns and her burst heal. She can heal 150HP instantly every 6 seconds. Nano heals for 200 HP and it’s an ult. She is bad outside of 3/3, they did a good job with that, but she still is mainly what is enabling the comp because she keeps flankers from actually countering healers.

Sure you can run 3/3 without her but you are losing out on a huge source of burst healing, CC, and damage.