My point was they encourage it.
Match Making Rating (MMR) relates to the handicapping system, not to rank (Skill Rating [SR]).
Good for you “noticing” the poll numbers that I cite at the top of my post. But why do you think Blizzard is justified in ignoring the overwhelming consensus of players polled in my threads?
Its likely with activision at the helm that jeff and scotts hands are entirely tied as far as smurfing and match making go.
It’s their game? They will run it how they want. Also, dont ignore my question, the same one I’ve asked you in 4 different threads.
Tbh that’s just assuming.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizzard were to ignore that idea if completely honest.
In my opinion i find it pretty stupid.
MMR could be an extremely long number (e.c 1.847272858757217) which really doesn’t help reading your rank.
SR is practically that number but visible.
MMR also decides how much SR you should gain or lose, meaning it actually would be more precise balancing you in the correct ranking.
Removing the MMR system means that the game will be completely win/loss based.
This can make it easier to throw down to a ranking, won’t be able to compensate for stomps and technical disconnects.
Also makes it much easier to get boosted.
I don’t see how removing the MMR system, which every multiplayer FPS uses will get rid of the smurfing issue.
If a certain amount of users want something, then it doesn’t mean it should be actually done.
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You’re right that MMR is probably not expressed in any kind of number that resembles SR. But your assumption that MMR is a single number is probably wrong, and you are definitely wrong about how those numbers function.
MMR and SR are not different versions of the same thing. SR is rank, MMR is a collection of skill-metrics used for handicapping. Please read my post and the quotation from Scott Mercer which explains this:
Yes, MMR is probably used for SR adjustment, but that doesn’t make it the same thing as SR. The fact that they are distinct systems proves the opposite: SR and MMR are not the same thing.
I can explain to you how removing MMR would fix the smurfing problem, but first you need to understand that it is not the same thing as SR. It’s also explained in my “stupid” thread, which you would know if you had read it. Get back to me if you ever see the light on this.
If you have lost faith in democracy, like many Americans have in the last 4 years, consider that the U.S.A. is not a true democracy. The American system of government is rigged to hell, and ostensibly undemocratic. Democracy is the best way of making decisions that affect a lot of people.
Blizzard should value the opinions of their customers. Consumers deserve protection against Blizzard’s oppressive corporate behaviour, just as voters deserve protection against the corporate oligarchs who own their media and politicians.
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I think Cuthbert might be ignoring you. I feel as though I might be able to answer your question, the real question is, can you have an open mind to my response?
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I’ll chime in because I don’t mean to ignore anybody. Removing MMR would solve smurfing because it would remove the handicapping system that most smurfs are tying to circumvent. And it would also allow the SR system to differentiate players by skill, sorting them into ranks according to their record of wins/losses, which is another reason there are so many high-skilled players in the lower ranks, who are often referred to as ‘smurfs’ whether or not they are actually smurfing.
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Yes I will take your answer with an open mind, I like having intellectual conversations, and is part of the reason why I keep asking Cuthbert for an answer to my question, as it seems he/she thinks things through and gives a well thought out explanation.
I simply can’t see this solving the problem at hand, if MMR/PBSR was removed I believe it would be easier for the smurfs to drop or raise rank as they want, as they would only need to throw or hard carry, granted this would move some players up and down to where they belong faster, but the smurfs would have a heyday with the removal, just my opinion.
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Well first off, there are a couple of things both you and I need to agree upon for the sake of this discussion to actually go somewhere.
Can we agree that neither of us has been privy to how the matchmaker works in its entirety?
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Agreed, no computer based system can ever be perfect trying to judge human based interaction. Obviously the matchmaker is flawed.
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I didn’t mean to phrase my question in a way which might’ve insinuated that the matchmaker is flawed. I only meant to establish that neither you nor I fully understands how the matchmaking algorithm functions. Can we agree that no one, not you, nor I, nor any player to the best of our knowledge has ever been briefed on how the matchmaker operates?
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100% agreed, only Blizzard knows how it works.
Edit: I don’t think even Blizzard really knows tbh, but have been briefed on it.
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Okay, awesome.
So the reason I went to length in attaining that response from you is because many ‘discussions’ on this forum amount to back and forth squabbling, if you would. I don’t want to have an argument more than I would prefer to discuss ideas, and experiences in game. All we have to go on about the matchmaker and the way it functions are our own first hand experiences and observations. And they are neither wrong nor right.
So that said. What I believe Cuthbert was trying to say
First, we ought to establish how smurfs are able to, well, ‘smurf.’ They typically throw down to a lower rank that is rife with unskilled/newer players or purchase an account that is ranked lower than that of their ‘main’ account. This has been my observation in my time playing Overwatch of how some players ‘smurf,’ and if you feel I’m wrong or there is another way or I didn’t explain it very well, please feel free to quote me on where you think I went wrong. Now, to my second point.
If we can agree that is how smurfing occurs, by being a highly skilled player in a rank far below your ‘true’ rank, it posits another question: what is the criteria used to gauge a smurf playing in gold versus just a regular ‘gold’ player? I think the answer to that question would be matchmaking rating but then again, none of us knows how the MMR works, so it’s sort of a deadend to go down that street.
But to answer the question, ‘how would removing MMR solve the smurfing issue?’ we need to revisit what Scott Mercer said about MMR: "When the matchmaker creates a match, it determines the % chance for each team to win based on the match it made. The VAST majority of matches are usually near to 50% (especially if you’re a player closer to median skill rating and you’re not in a group).
So hypothetically, if I’m a grandmaster Widow main in bronze queuing for competitive, how do you think the match will be balanced so that each team stands a 50% chance of winning? (if that is even possible with a GM smurf)
MMR by design and its purpose means that there are varying degrees of skill in any given rank and that it will actively try and counterbalance these varying degrees of skill so that each match is as close to 50% for either team. One might even argue that the matchmaker by design alone can create the illusion of smurfs in games where there are none. What do I mean by this? How many folk can attest to being called a ‘smurf’ when they’re really not? That’s simply an observation made by a player to an opposing player they deem far more skilled than they are, and possibly their team, through no fault of their own. It’s simply how the match was ‘balanced’ by the matchmaker.
So by ‘removing’ matchmaking rating and letting the pieces fall where they might, every game would be up to chance, and not crafted in a way where the stand out players in any given match are made to fight opposing smurfs/other stand out players. And you might argue for the sake of this discussion “well, if you’re solo queuing, isn’t fighting one doppleganger better than fighting three?” to which I’d respond with ‘absolutely.’ However, one might prefer fighting three juggernauts due to chance every few games than to be forced to face a mirror player every other game on the opposing team. (as an aside, I don’t know if you’ve ever played OoT, but remember having to fight Dark Link in the Water Temple?)
Hopefully I elaborated well enough and didn’t justify my opinions as factual or ramble too much LOL it’s been a while since I’ve written any persuasive pieces. And Cuthbert, I didn’t mean to insinuate that you were ignoring Brett, I apologize.
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I remember the same culture of accusation from when I still played Overwatch. Players get accused of smurfing for a variety of reasons which might be true or false. Some players are smurfing on serial accounts, and some are effectively smurfing on a single account, because MMR has put them down to a lower rank than they should really be at. But I think the former group are the true smurfs, because playing on a new account seems to be a way to get around the handicapping effect of MMR, at least temporarily.
I think even very highly skilled players can be counteracted by MMR in the lower tiers, especially if they specialize in tank/support characters. This is where I think about the synergies between certain players and characters and wonder about the precise workings of the MMR system, which I still believe are more profound than most players realize.
This is so great! Of course I grew up on OoT and I meditated on this scene when I was thinking about how to conceptualize MMR. Of course the issue is more nuanced because it’s about the manipulation of multiple players and match records, but Link’s doppelganger in the Water Temple evokes the same uncanny sense of contravention.
Thanks for contributing so much to this topic and helping to focus discussion on what I think we both agree are the worst problems with the game. I hope threads like this will contribute to regulatory action against the games industry one day.
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How about having a “Smurf” option in the report menu, and after a very high threshold (to help prevent griefing), boost the hell out of their MMR forcing them to play against proper competition.
We’re not going to get any “solving smurf” solutions at all. OW2 is PvE DLC. Who cares if people smurf there? Players on OW1 will still be able to play competitive, nothing will change on that front. You’re still going to see people buying the game multiple times lol.
What part of Blizzard is a Business that runs on alt accounts is hard to understand?
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Jeff said last year that the game has a new system that should detect how good a player really is by watching how they play, this system I think is something made up b.c if it was in the game its broken.to fix smurfing make this system he said they have work, if a player can go into a match and bang off 50 kills in bronze. auto push to silver or gold if it happens again in the next game or two or just straight up.I mean isnt the entire purpose of MMR to dectect if someone is to good for their peers ?
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this is a great comment!
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