So.. question: Why put effort to make a new healer Sym? Why not just give us back 2.0?

Like i don’t get it…If you guys are putting the effort in this whole thing again, to make her a SUPPORT no less, then why make a new version?

Why not return to the routes of 2.0 and IMPROVE the things that could be improved? You never really tried, in all the time Sym 2.0 existed, not a single balance change happened to her. Why?
Sym 2.0 was the most fun, arguably the most popular as well.

She just needed a little assistance, not even buffs exactly, just quality of life changes:

  • allow her to deploy her 6 turrets at any range and slightly increase their beams range
  • make the beam of her gun straight with max 120dps, but increase its range to 15m
  • make the orbs faster if they are low charge

And if you really want to push this support/healing gig, then here are a few suggestions:

  • allow her to switch between healing and damage on her turrets
  • allow her photon barrier on E to give a few temporary shields when they pass through teammates
  • allow her constructs to passively give a certain amount of shields within their respective 2-5 meter range which could stack…
  • allow her to switch between healing and damage beams on her gun

The only thing i would change for 2.0 is maybe give her ultimate the option between the wall and the old teleporter.

You are just complicating things, i don’t understand the logic.
Its like taking out earphones out of your pockets but instead of slowly and nicely untieing them, you just throw them around hoping they would untie themselves…


I want 2.1 with the following changes to start with

Lock on removed replaced with a wide frontal cone hitbox so it is still easy to aim. but feels fairer than lockon did.
range increased to 12m.
Damage buffed from 30-60-120 to 60-90-120

Orb speed increased to current speed.

Turret damage reduced to 20, now slows for 1/3rd movement speed, Slow can no longer stack, turrets will auto target different enemies to slow as many as possible, 30 shield hp, 5 health, throwable.

E barrier gains the ability to pause its flight.

New passive 20m range constantly generates Doomfist style shield hp on all allies in range capping at 25 generates at 15points per second. (would need to be tuned but pbbbbt)

Ult shield gen shield given reduced to 50. TP unchanged.


Sym v2 got a lot of hate for not being a heal bot and also for being a Genji counter.


Sym 2.0 as well as Torb did not fit with the game’s new philosophy. Which is why they were changed.

Also 222 and Brigitte make it hard for Sym 2.0 to come back.



Firts of all, 3 points:

  • Proton barrier is currently Sigmas barrier, and Im sure as hell we dont want nor need any more barriers moving around the map.

  • Lock-on beam was the very thing that made Sym 2.0 a mess to balance (cant buff her to be viable in high ranks without destroyed low ranks), she had no range or any way to improve her skill ceiling, current Genji will destroy her before she can even charge up her beam.

  • The devs already said they dont want any overheal in the game, so you can probably say bye to shield generator. Only few exceptions remain in the game and most of them arent even supports (Sigma and Torb) and Rally being the only ult that can overheal (they even removed repair pack armor)


I think this is bad because it makes playing against her very frustrating and people would be complaining.

Neither are Zen nor Lucio, they provide something else. The characters in the game should never be molded into the same gray squares.

lmao, ill let you know when i start to care about them.

His rework was a huge success and it didnt take away from his identity

idk what their new philosophy is, but its a mess.

How so?

it was originally Sym’s first of all. Second, it moves too fast to even be an annoyance to the level of Sigma and Orisa. It was mostly for crucial damage from snipers and to assist sym with her survivability.

You obviously didnt even read what i wrote. I specifically said that the lock on should be removed.

There are lots of things that can substitute this 1 concept.

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It’s still never going to happen. I was a proponent of letting Sym stop it again by hitting E again. Then Sigma got added and Double Shield became and still is a horriffic hell.

Jeff literally said in the AMA last week that 1) next experimental is focused on killing Double Shield and 2) he wants less barriers in the game overall

So I don’t see this happening.

We also know we aren’t getting Support Sym without multiple forms of healing, according to Geoff.


exactly why I made this post. I am literally questioning the logic behind this whole thing. Why go through the effort of making another Sym when there is already a support concept that needs very little work to work. It’s stupid. And its their fault that we are in this mess anyway.

No other hero, besides mercy perhaps, has been condemned to such disrespect and genie-pig style experimentation. If they actually listened to us for once, non of us would be in this situation.


The logic is that she didn’t work consistently enough as a Support when she was one with no healing.

And now the damage and lethality in the game has been increased and powercrept 10x since launch AND Geoff literally said they are experimenting with globally buffing damage AND a different experiment of making tanks less tank and more offensive. Sym would need multiple forms of sustain to be even remotely useful.

It’s hilarious you bring up Mercy when her and Zen are considered universally bad support picks for not having enough healing yet you want Sym to be a support with no healing and expect it to work/be viable.

I’m a Support Main, I bought this game because of Sym, and she was my second main until she became a DPS. So who is “us” because I want a healing Support Sym.

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the us who protested sym 3.0 rework in the first place.

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My point is there is no “us”, every Sym player wants something different.

You sound like the Mercy mains who try to say “WE ALL wanted to keep Mass Rez WE ALL hate the rework” like no, who’s we? Speak for yourselves you aren’t speaking for everyone.

Also why didn’t you respond to my other points about Sym needing healing?

Because honestly i don’t care about her healing or not. If im being honest, i dont think she needs yet another rework at all.
I just want to keep her identity, turrets that do damage for example, shields, and to keep her fun and a hero that requires brain power and creativity.

I really don’t consider turrets that do damage her “identity”, if anything it’s one of the parts of her kit holding her back. They’re pretty useless in high MMR and then seen as annoying cheesey in low MMR.

I personally see her identity as a builder/utility support hero who provides shield based support to her team and has access to a teleporter. I’d honestly be fine with her losing damage turrets entirely but I understand that’s just me. I’ve seen some suggestions that manage to add in both DPS and healing turrets, although does she even need healing turrets to be a support? They can just make her right clicks do healing and move faster to basically be like Bap nades. Idk.

Agreed. No hero has the same potential and creativity that Sym has, it’s amazing and I hope any changes will preserve it as well.

Yeah… thats what i added, dps and healing turrets.
And i honestly love her turrets… well placed smart ones can carry games, there is nothing more satisfying then seeing enemies get tangled into them.
The tp is what annoys people, and what holds her back right now…

And as for her right click doing healing like bap… that idea kind of annoys me because it basically molds Sym into a copy of another hero, which i hate. Non of these heroes should ever be made to look like gray square boxes.

Old Sym, even even with buffs would be a huge throw pick. Supports aren’t the same as they were a few years ago, it isn’t about utility you being anymore, its about mass healing and powerful sustaining AOE.

Sym will not survive trying get picked over the likes of Ana, Moria and Brig. And even Mercy and Bapt as well. She will get completely drowned out.

She has a much better shot being a dps and buffing her into her niece. There isn’t as much competition for defensive heros in a bunker comp style. Though you will run into the probably last time which is, she will be an even bigger throw pick if she gets played on attack.

So idk what to suggest, but revert Sym or even a new support Sym with anything that isn’t mass healing is going to be worse for her.

I love and miss my queen to this day, but I doubt she will ever return. There is too much stigma attached to her kit, alongside Blizzard changing the support role definition to always have some source of healing, and generally moving away from Overheal as a mechanic.

Also, Sym 2.0 kit was terrible for PvE content, and we need her to be playable in OW2 story modes as well. That’s another point against her return.

She will remain in DPS, unless they attach some healing into her. And I’m fine with that if in the process she returns to her shield-providing role somehow. But I’m also fine into making her into a proper utility DPS.

Honestly, I just want the piercing orbs and max 6 turret back.

It did took part of his identity away, he was a lot more frail once he lost his armor packs. However, it streamlined his intended gameplay, so Torb mains only had to adapt to the new ultimate, and non-mains actually started using him as intended and suddenly realized he was actually a very strong hero.

They did gave back his tanky nature once they increased his HP by 50 armor in a later patch. At least within the Torb community, that was also when they stopped trying to make “Torb 2.0” nomenclature catch up like the Symmetra community did.

I also consider Torb rework a huge success, just like how Sym 2.0 is a huge success compared to Sym 1.0. But we need to be aware why it was a good rework. Torb rework is a success for a different reason why, Lúcio or Sym reworks were also successes.

I would argue Sym 2.0 and Sombra could had their utility ramped up and fit in the support slot within role queue. That would be mostly a “what if” exercise, since we are fully aware of Blizzard stance on this matter.

The issue was not role queue. The issue was Blizzard moving away from the whole non-healing support concept, and don’t feel like it was a bad decision. They did so a year before role queue was announced.

Yeah, high lethality is the main reason why I don’t like standard FPS games. There is nothing worse than instantly dying because you crossed a sightline of a camper.

That’s one more reason on my pile of why I’m only staying around hoping the PvE campaign will be good.

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That is not relevant to what I was saying. Success or not he got rewokred for the same reason Sym 2.0 got reworked.

Its pretty simple:

  • No overheal abilities
  • All supports most heal
  • Heroes must be good on both attack and defense

Sym 2.0 and Torb did not fit this so they were reworked.

A support without healing in 222 is an automatic throw pick. Also Brigitte is a very strong healer that can overshadow Sym 2.0.

However I feel they moved away from heal less supports to make way for 222. Also Sym 2.0 will not work in 222 so whats done is done.

sym 2.0 modified can work with minor adjustments and added healing tbh…

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I don’t think it would be Sym 2.0 anymore. You will have take away some thing or adjust her power.

Seems more like Sym 4.0 if they go that way.

Sym 4.0 is a gamble. I just dont want her to become a spammer heal bot. And i want to keep her damage turrets, thats all i ask. So it has that strategic micromanagement vibe.