You gotta learn to respect widow los, and you can get out of it with your head intact with good movement. As to the dooms, lucios gr8 for booping them b4 they land, u can moira and fade while dpsing the doom before he escapes, if he uppercuts someone they usually kill em with shotgun fist thing so u can matrix that with dva, not to mention boop the doom off targey with thrusters.
thanks for the explanation and I apologize , I didn’t many tournaments in other fps so didn’t know how they work.
while I love sarcasm dude it is what it is smurfs demotivated a lot of people
more than that is that if someone go zen/brig when I have a tank or zen lucio I prefer those 2 picks since at least I can manage healing for myself (hammond by running into medpacks or hog healing himself), I tried a lot to play with team but a lot of time I see they just don’t like your pick and then throw (played sombra 200 h in my old acc tracking my and enemy team ulti, positioning, calling hack emps etc even with countdown in chat… simply people don’t like that pick…
sometime (not my case) ppl just go ball since they see their tanks effort aren’t rewarded, there aren’t kill around so they just say ''ok… at least I’m goin to have a bit of fun since i’m stuck here fot 10 min into a loss
tried this aswell, even triying to combo the ulti… (sombra example I did before… called emp… with a perfect position… answer ''switch sombraaa omg… when prob a emp shatter won the fight…
I get the hints and I thank you for those… but facing smurfs sincerely demotivate me as hell , It only drive to ask myself ‘‘why the … he have to come in lower ranks? bored? yes is only that the answer’’
1 Like
Just so you know, everytime you die, there was a fair and objective reason to it. You only get better by learning from them. Going against “smurfs” is how you really learn to play. If not dying is the goal you gotta learn to keep tabs on 6 enemies at all times, if you lost a fight, were there any different decisions you could have made that would have maybe changed the outcome? Now keep in mind overwatch is a lot more easy to learn when you mute all your know it all teammates and actually see the big picture in the battlefield
1 Like
not that I wanna be egocentric on this but I press tab to watch team comp more than my primary fire lol
2 Likes
To be fair, I don’t believe any other FPS games have tournaments like this - but most of those shooters also aren’t quite so team dependent as Overwatch, so I don’t think it’s nearly as important.
I’m going to say something that might seem a bit controversial - especially since I myself have smurfed. The frequency that I’ve actually seen smurfs, let alone seen low ranked players accurately determine that someone is smurfing, is exceedingly rare. Bad or average players are terrible at spotting good players in the game. Most of them simply do not understand what sets apart a good player from a bad player beyond mechanical skill.
For starters - they practically never notice when someone is smurfing on tank or support. DPS, for the longest time was my worst role, but it was the only role I was ever accused of smurfing on - and ironically, it occurred most often when I felt like I was contributing little to the actual team fight, and that I wasn’t personally performing that well. Often just getting a lot of picks and showing up in the feed is all it takes, even if you aren’t actually doing much
Furthermore, they seem to largely base it on account level. I was accused of smurfing continuously when my account level was low, but around level 100 or so it just sorta… stopped.
A personal example: I was watching my friend stream to review his gameplay, and the enemy Soldier was blatantly smurfing - but he was like level 300 and wasn’t actually getting in the kill feed that often. However, he was putting out immense pressure and was consistently preventing team fights from even occurring, his positioning was way better than his team’s and he controlled it so well that my friend’s team just couldn’t push. Which, from my experience of watching players in that rank, was infinitely more than they generally do.
I pointed this out to my friend, saying that he needed to be the first priority if they were to push past the choke they were stuck at, he relayed it to his team, and two of them called him an idiot and said the Soldier was terrible, and actually it was the (practically AFK) Hog that was the issue. They then claimed the Soldier could not be smurfing because of his level, but because the Hog was like level 60 - it must be him preventing them from doing anything.
And this raises another issue with the supposed impact of smurfs, on most heroes and most roles they aren’t nearly as impactful as people seem to think. Without a doubt, a better player is better. But a smurf can actually be very easily fixed with some basic coordination or focusing them down (or, sometimes, just ignoring them). If the team had done even the basic amount of effort in denying this position from the Soldier - which they were more than capable of doing, he would have achieved substantially less. The issue, from my personal experience, is that low ranked players just tend to give up without really even trying, they fail to notice the issue to begin with, even if directly told what it is - or they try to ego someone that is blatantly better than them.
“The enemy Widow is smurfing”
*Plat DPS Swaps to Widow???
There are several ways to address an issue like this - mirroring, dueling, or just endlessly repeating the same actions, are not them. And I’ve actually seen low ranked players make good calls like this - only to be met with silence, and ignored entirely, or insulted, like my friend. And I feel their frustration, because it isn’t nearly the impassable wall that a lot of people think it is. Overwatch is very team dependent, it’s practically impossible for a single person to win a game.
Having a better player on your team is certainly an advantage, but it isn’t some magical win button. If you watch some of the objectively best players in this game do unranked to GM, they’ll have some frustrating losses in ranks like plat and diamond because their team just won’t work.
But what a lot of people don’t realize about Overwatch is that a huge portion of the game is literally just game knowledge. Yes, your ability to act on that knowledge does matter - but most basic strats in Overwatch are shockingly easy to actually execute. Players are just terrifyingly unwilling to do them. I was playing tank with a friend in diamond on Dorado, and I literally just called to go high ground together and we’d win the fight - and the response I was met with was “What, are we trying to be pros now?”
Controlling high ground is like the bare minimum that you can do to win fights consistently. And it’s critically important on maps like Dorado.
Sorry, I ranted for a fair bit there. I know I’ll probably come off as hypocritical since I do smurf, but there’s blatantly a lot of misconceptions about smurfing in Overwatch.
The issue there is that comps are about more than just raw numbers, and supports are more than just healers. Team synergy and playstyle is very important. Hog doesn’t really play well with Zen or Lucio because he doesn’t really care about them. Discord - he can solo most people in the game anyways; and speed boost - his basic positioning prevents him from really getting value from it.
And with Hog and Brig - they have a lot of overlap that makes picking both of them bad for a lot of comps and maps, because it’s leaving your team weak in another area. I would really only run both of them if you’re getting dove or are consistently getting flanked in your backline - but even then, one of them should generally be enough.
It’s not to say that it never works, but you’re only really giving attention to a single aspect of how a comp is formed - healing potential - while ignoring the many other, oftentimes more critically important aspects. And I’m also not saying that just because someone picked Ball or Hog that they’re throwing, either. There are absolutely situations where they are viable, optimal - or even required - picks.
I hate that defeatist mentality.
If your efforts aren’t being rewarded on tank, Ball is single handedly the worst thing you can swap to. He leaves so much up to his team, if they aren’t fulfilling their part he struggles to do anything remotely substantial.
I don’t know about that. If you aren’t GM - maybe masters - I doubt you’re ever in the perfect position. Even top players don’t always manage perfect positions. Frankly - I had mediocre positioning even for a long time in GM, and I mostly play tank, which is kinda positioning-critical.
That’s when it’s important to understand another facet of Overwatch.
It’s a team game. Some teams are not able to coordinate well with Sombra - she requires a fair bit of actual team play to be better than pretty much any other DPS pick. If your team can’t play around it - you probably need to swap.
Just because a pick like Sombra demands team synergy does not mean that your team will magically materialize it. And this is actually my very same issue with Ball. Yes, the Ball himself doesn’t require much teamwork to exist on his own, but for him to actually get value, his team needs to be fairly well coordinated. They aren’t picks you swap to when your team isn’t up to par and you feel like you need their survivability and assassination potential, they’re picks you swap to when your team can execute very coordinated plans or can perform well without you.
smurfs rare? sure, come in gold silver and see how many low ranks play like ‘‘golds’’
dude some games are clearly lost, smurfs or not, I don’t keep trying when I get the direction of the match is onesided
dude if a lev 26 widow hit EVERY . SINGLE. SHOT no way that player is new, what you expect? a diamond smurf be worst than a gold? cmon. ofc he’s better lmao
I will never watch something that simply fill the lack of content of those streamers. I will never give a single view on that ‘‘educational’’ stuff, wanna do coaching? go watch replays, wanna do ‘‘educational’’ stuff? go do tutorial on youtube without ruining the low ranks matches.
dude again, vs PEOPLE WHO ARE TRULY IN MY RANK I DO THAT WILLINGLY AND HAPPY, vs a smurf I just let the game finish, not fun, not a learning experience. not motivating at all, stay all on your ranks and stop messing up in lower ones where we already have our problems since you can’t win alone there (until you smurf lol)
sure. but at least I can heal myself . instead of waiting the slow regen of lucio or the one of the orb, why I must change , why is always up to me, sick of this, up to other people like even those zen lucio who don’t sync well with hog to change. sick to play for the others while the others don’t care at all
well I won’t pick other tanks since 1 aren’t fun and if I go dva monkey I just feed, neither the others are doin anything good with their picks? not up to me to carry their bottoms, so I’m goin to have fun with the ‘‘worst picks’’, maybe next time contest that soldier who keep destroyin my shield , because no way I pick dva and dive into him.
didn’t say I always had that, I said I track the enemy/teammates position so I know they can ulti after emp… none care.
and again, sick to be always me the one counterpicking, syncronizing or such stuff, also I cannot play a lot of heroes, other teammates have fun by onetricking something that maybe isn’t getting value? well not my fault for having sombra, not my concern anymore. up to the others to wake a bit sometime, selfish? yes, like the others I always meet.
also I can play only 3 dps, sombra, junkrat and torb, to hell I will ever try the others since I’m bad with em (was reaper main once but thanks to all the people who cried that he’s op (latest news he never was) he’s a joke of a dps now.
2 Likes
In my honest experience? Most of them. Often you just find a DPS having a lucky game and showing up in the killfeed a lot and suddenly everyone thinks they’re smurfing.
Things like positioning, ability usage, target prioritization, and most especially ult usage, are the real indicators of smurfs. These things are not nearly as good as you might think from a lot of these supposed smurfs. Again - mechanical skill is not nearly as important in Overwatch as it is in other games. Many top ranked players are only above average mechanically, myself for example, it’s their other skills the make them stand out - such as their positioning and decision making.
Sure, I’m not stating otherwise. Sometimes it’s better to just go again. However - rarely is this just because the enemy team has a smurf.
That’s not even remotely what I’m saying here.
I’m saying - if the enemy Widow is smurfing - stop trying to duel her. If they’re better, stop trying to force situations where they can demonstrate just how much better they are. That is the single worst thing you can do.
Again - that just isn’t what I’m saying though.
My points are:
Most players are wrong about who is smurfing.
Most smurfs are very easy to address, players just decide they’ve lost before anything even happens, and-
Most players simply refuse to even play the game as a team to begin with, smurfs or not.
And the example I used did not have a smurf on the enemy team at all - the team literally just refused to do the bare minimum to win a teamfight.
I think you’re just really misinterpreting what I’m saying at this point.
My example is literally that the tank is the one not doing anything - I’m not specifically calling you out for your picks or anything. I’m not saying it’s just up to you to do anything. My original point was about situations where the team is doing perfectly fine on their own, but one of the tanks just refuses to cooperate. Because the tank is the most critical role - if they aren’t doing the bare minimum, it is exceedingly difficult to win.
And beyond that - what good is healing yourself going to do if no plays are ever made? Healing yourself in a losing situation is doing nothing more than feeding the enemy team ult charge. Again - it’s not the solution you think it is. Stop just looking at healing.
Once more - Hog Ball aren’t even the worst picks. That is not, and never was, my point. It isn’t actually the pick itself that is the issue - it’s the player. Hog and Ball are literally the meta lol. The issue isn’t them, specifically. It’s just that there is a very obvious pattern of bad teammates coincidentally picking those heroes, specifically.
Unfortunately, you are the only thing you can control in a match. I agree it’s annoying - that’s essentially been my entire argument.
This - again - is not my point. My point was that you’re talking about playing very specific heroes - heroes which often require great deals of team work to achieve the same level of value as nearly any other hero - and in some cases mentioning that you’ll pick them because your team is playing poorly.
My argument is that these are the absolute worst situations that you can pick heroes like this, because succeeding on them is much more dependent on your team doing their job than otherwise would be required. Essentially, your own skill doesn’t matter as much with a pick like Ball or Sombra - your team’s ability to play around you matters. And you shouldn’t rely so heavily on your teammates in low ranks, because your teammates are bad.
And in an instance where you’re achieving nothing as Sombra because your team can’t play to it? That absolutely is your concern - because it’s ultimately you’re fault that the team is losing in that specific instance. You have to have reasonable expectations of what your team can do, and Sombra and Ball are two of the most difficult teammates to play around. It isn’t quite comparable to what I was saying of players literally just needing to change position to achieve something - these heroes require much more than that to be better than other heroes in their category. Anyone can move somewhere else. Not everyone can coordinate properly with Ball or Sombra.
In a vacuum, Ball and Sombra are actually quite strong - but on ladder, they’re generally quite weak below Masters, and honestly even into Masters they can be terrible picks for your team - because they are individually quite difficult to play, and have very high expectations of their teams, which their team can sometimes not fulfill.
in fact I recognize by that, widow hitting by a tiny window offangle at lev 26? smurf
doom rollouts at lev 27? smurf
zarya that know when to ulti at lev 26? smurf
cmon dude we aren’t all idiots.
in fact is always
ok leave the smurf uncontested… oh wait I cannot do anything else because the uncontested one keep melting my team because none go vs her. well I stop DOIN ANYTHING in the match. if fact not playin comp and keep the qp where I’m free to leave, like I did now when I’m writing here.
and again, this is only your perception, we seen so many that we know who is gold and who not.
ok gotta play with lucio zen and lose because can’t stay up in the fight due no sustain, again, if i can’t tank with the tanks I’m using I’m goin to play something with Im bad anyway but at least do something fun.
sure, I’m bad with hammond, so? I’m bad even with the others so?
well I’m sick to be the sacrifical lamb, in the end I will be gold anyway or silver anyway, even if I counterpick. someone else stand up , because I won’t do that anymore.
good , up to my team to wake up, I am gold and I will never go out from there, so if they want to win so badly up to them to play ‘‘around’’, sick to be the only one sweating.
well so I will never reach master because I don’t play , or better, I’m really bad with heroes needed to reach master (bad hitscan here, can track only as sommbra)
1 Like
These are literally the basics of each character. Like - the absolute rudimentary basics.
Learning Doom rollouts is as simple as watching a 4 minute video. It’s not like they’re complicated.
Obviously Widow would be positioned at an off-angle most of the time, or she can easily… die?
And, what is your opinion of a Zarya “knowing when to ult”? I’m genuinely curious.
They’re also the cause of rising inflation and decreasing wages.
Again, and I’m honestly not sure how I can make this any clearer at this point - dueling a smurf is the single worst thing you can do.
The best thing you can do is just get like one or two other teammates to even vaguely coordinate against them.
And I’ve seen so many more that think someone is smurfing for the simplest things - against, such as Doom rollouts. They are the weakest indicator of a smurf in my life. I used to be a Masters Doomfist OTP.
Do you know how many Doom rollouts I knew? Practically none.
Are you just intentionally misunderstanding what I’m saying at this point?
Then it’s certainly not smurfs that are keeping you in the rank lol - it’s your mental.
Again, weak mental.
There are no “heroes needed to hit master”. I’ve continually played off-meta picks into Masters and GM. When I first started playing the game, I exclusively one-tricked Rein during Dive. The caveat was that I had to understand Rein’s weaknesses on certain maps and in certain situations. I rarely, if ever, play to the meta.
My point isn’t “don’t play these heroes”. My point is that certain heroes are just fundamentally going to struggle to achieve certain things, and if your argument is “I play Ball because my team isn’t doing enough”, then you’re wrong - because that is the single worst reason to play Ball, and is fundamentally ignorant to the core mechanics of the hero.
ye sure, most of them doin map rollout just fall into enemy team to be scrapped, not falling by doin 3 kills and get away at speed of light, also none can learn in 4 minutes lol i cannot even remember where I had my last qp.
something a non-smurf (new player) don’t know.
dude all zarya high ranks I’ve seen wait someone in team to ulti usually to combo, waiting shields are depleted, they watch where maybe is flying the pharah about to barrage, and they seems to have eyes everywhere. shielding everyone at the exact time.
again I love sarcasm , I don’t get offended.
and again I don’t know how to make clear for you that if I do as you say THE UNCONTESTED SMURF MELT THE TEAM . while I try to do something else maybe by focusing someone else I can’t do that because he’s up to me. or if we take the widow example she’s sniping and getting 2-3 picks each fight ‘‘while I focus the one or two teammates’’ you mentioned
no I don’t, I’m simply sayin I can play 2 tanks only (by i can play I mean ‘‘I can do few things’’ but sometime team don’t do much so gotta go on ball or hog
my mental derive from smurfs, dude everyone else play the hero he want (maybe genji into winston torb cassidy zarya and not getting any value?) me too then, my mental come from that guy not switching too.
dude 1 you can climb with offmeta because you smurf, none in gold have any tool to deal with a smurf.
2
you said this. I don’t have any other hero to play below master, that’s all. (and I will never reach master
1 Like
wrong. this just shows you’ve never played doom. many rollouts require good timing and practice, and most new players won’t just start playing doom and dedicating enough time to learning rollouts, or even know they exist
1 Like
Did you really not read the entire conversation?
People some reason think that every one that plays the game has to be completely new to video games.
The reality is that these days games are very competitive. Those videos of rollout guides, etc, and basic videos are just about common knowledge to many players. I’ve seen gold doomfist do a rollout. Couldn’t do much beyond that!
hmm so lets break down skills or techniques players can acquire or are just a talent that comes naturally
- aim mechanics and precision
- decision making or problem solving (high IQ stuff)
- movement - NO WASTED movement as in every move you make has a reason
- positioning on map
- map knowledge
- hero knowledge and ult awareness. knows a lot about ALL heroes and can guess their ult cooldowns
- all hero tech savviness - as in knowledgeable in all heroes techs and specifically the heroes they play techniques
anything im missing here?
Accepting the idea that all smurfs are not bad means you are siding with the wrong side. You are knowingly making the decision to allow evil into the enviroment of gaming and dwell without resistance. You sir are wrong no further debate needed.
1 Like
Lol, okay. Nevermind my like 110 hours of one-tricking Doom from like 3.3k to 3.7k a few years ago. I’ve also spent a lot of time in Doom parkour, for what it’s worth.
I mean - kinda? I never really bothered with most rollouts, but the few that I did learn took me like 2 or 3 tries in a custom lobby to figure out. The most complicated parts for the majority of them are like, diags and stalls - which aren’t exactly unimaginably difficult or terribly complicated on timing. Literally watch a video and spend a few minutes figuring it out. I really feel like the basic tech shouldn’t take that much longer to get the gist of. Sure, there are more complicated techs, but the majority of the important rollouts don’t normally need them.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just more talented at Doomfist than I thought?
Most new accounts aren’t new players or smurfs, they’re alts. Several people have done rudimentary analyses of this, such as SVB, and my own anecdotes about watching new accounts shows that the tend to perform pretty consistently with players of the rank they’re in.
I’ve honestly never spent more than like 2 tries to learn most of this tech.
It could be an alt? It could be someone that has played any other fps game ever. I tend to hop into a new ranked FPS and automatically place above average - that doesn’t mean I’m smurfing, I just play a lot of FPS games.
The last part - bubble usage, is definitely a stronger indicator to me, as a GM Zarya main, of whether or not a Zarya is smurfing. Grav is easy, the basic coordination of it just requires you press tab. Even still, most low ranked players often wait way too long to use it. Rarely do I combo ults with grav unless it’s literally required to win the fight - I often just use it to pick one or two squishies or the off-tank.
I’m not trying to offend you, I’m just a sarcastic person.
I mean, do you think GM players are just constantly forcing duels with GM Widows? I mean, sure - it happens everywhere, but generally they want to force her out of position. Often you just dive her and force her back to create a moment of space. You don’t have to kill someone to stop them from doing anything.
I wasn’t born GM, my dude. When I first installed the game I was gold.
It depends on your definition of “smurf”. I call it “alt accounts” and it’s not for ruining other people’s games purposes.
I don’t want to sound rude and I’m not saying we should always take it lightly but it’s just a video game and there are other bigger issues in life. You can’t expect multiplayer video gaming to be perfect when human beings and our society in general are not.
Take some hindsight or it will get to you at a deeper level. Why losing nerves over a game where you will never have control over the players’ changing mood… ?
Are you implying that you, as an online gamer among many others, are “perfect” and irreproachable at all times ? Statistically speaking, it’s very unlikely for anyone to 100% be .
And again, I’m not trying to upset you. You don’t seem to be a bad person, I’m just saying that you worth more than wasting your nerves on an online game. Everyone has their personal history, smurfs do too and instead of antagonizing them, it’s much more constructive to look at the cause of such a phenomenon (which also something that happens in real life for more serious things).
Manichaeism won’t lead you anywhere. It’s more subtle that a case of “right” or “wrong”. Your personal need to be “right” about this only shows you’re trying to reassure anyone but yourself (which is exactly what you’re blaming smurfs for).
So it’s quite ironic in a sense.
to me are the same thing, two people who mess with match balance.
sure dude, this may happen between two similar fps like cod or cs, but ow have different heroes with different skills a new player cannot know what every hero do/can do and how to counter them, this take a lot of time
well at least a point of meet. (dunno if is clear what I mean, not english here)
sure, in gm is another matter, do you think a gold who let a gm free to snipe have other ways to deal with situation? no because they’re gold.
neither I and neither I will be, I’m gold (tank/dps gold silver/supp peaked diamond and then fell into plat thanks to people who don’t know how to peel and because I refuse to play ana so every other support is useless when that op granny is around, but that’s another matter and don’t wanna talk here about that)
from there I won’t move. goin comp is just a drive into anger. good for nothing rather than few gold weapons (wich I don’t care) and a sr number, if I play vs people in the same rank as me can be fun, but we all know isn’t like this.
yes it is, and if you start with ‘‘wNna lewArn a new hero’’ you can do that in qp on your main, if you’re all so good then climb up again won’t be a issue but I know that glowing number is too precious for the ‘‘aaaalts’’
1 Like
But that is explicitly not what we were talking about.
We were talking about basic positioning as a sniper - something which is rather consistent between the majority of shooters.
If you were making an argument about someone like Rein or Lucio, I could understand - but Widow has one of the most generic FPS skillsets in the game. If you’ve played an FPS, you should have a decent starting grasp of Widow.