I don’t like this approach. But maybe most players would. All I said was that if this is the road we want to go down, we should simply be honest about it: the win condition in lower rated matches should not have anything to do with pushing payloads or capping points. It should purely be stats based.
Otherwise everyone who was winning matches in those ranks (using the current win conditions) would have a very legitimate gripe that players who could not win in those ranks were being boosted past them. If you change the win condition that ceases to be a legitimate complaint- then you’d have the players who were winning matches being pushed up through the ranks past those who could not win.
You’d have an issue with the transition from lower ranks to higher ranks when the win condition changed (assuming you didn’t simply want to make the win condition stats based at all ranks), but you would have that issue anyway with the transition from performance based MMR adjustments to no performance based MMR adjustments. Either way, it’s going to be a rough transition for the boosted players that decreases match quality at whatever rank that transition occurs.
This, however, is absurd. I have repeatedly pointed out how to improve the match quality in this very thread. Players need to consider how they may best positively impact their matches and stop worrying about the matchmaker. That is a solution that can be implemented at any point by any player and will actually improve the overall match quality of the game.
You are like a newborn baby wet with placenta when it comes to wisdom. You’re at the very tip of even getting a taste of it. You believe in brainwashing techniques to cope with your mediocrity which are actually just techniques used to keep people accepting being treated poorly. It would take hours of therapy for me to help you and I don’t have time.
If you’re playing 15 hours of overwatch a week, 100% solo queue, then you are going on loss and win streaks that make no sense, period, end of story.
But you could also put a minimum SR increase on winning. This is called a suggestion, or contribution.
Pbmmr could also include time on payload as a factor. This is also a contribution, or collaboration, to encourage the player to still favor the objective as core gameplay.
You are back to spouting nonsense. The reason you start talking about placentas and try to insult me is because you have no substance to contribute to the discussion.
Usually, performance based MMR adjustments are offered in lieu of changing the win condition. What I’m suggesting is that if we want to say kills or healing or damage or time spent on the payload are the way to rank up the ladder in lower ranks, we should simply make that the win condition and dispense with the current win conditions.
Even making time spent on payload a metric for performance based MMR adjustments is something that can be min-maxed in order to rank up the ladder. And if that’s what we want lower ranked players to be doing, we should just be honest about it and say that pushing the payload or capping the point is not how you win matches of OW in lower ranks- you win by ‘insert whatever performance based criteria you want to use’ here.
This was sorted by putting in a minimum SR increase on a win. This again is just detraction. See a solution, not a problem.
Also, pbmmr in OW1 was based off all your stats. Your character profile, all that info, was used. There is no reason to simplify or cherry pick just a few. It would then be possible to weight different elements, and this could be put through calculation feedback loops (think AI) to decide what the better stats needed for winning are.
And it is fine to make it clear. Those who try to abuse it will only get so far, before they then need to relearn what to focus. This is not a problem, it is a feature.
Here’s your loop for mastering any given skill set:
Assessment- in terms of OW, this could be a match or a series of matches. You will either win, lose or draw these matches. And since the skillset we are attempting to improve in OW is winning matches, the difference in these outcomes becomes our assessment.
Analysis- in OW this would most properly be VOD reviews, and it can often help to get a second set of eyes on your replays. Your goal here is to find one or more things that you have room for improvement on. These should be reasons that you are currently not winning your matches (which is why it’s important to VOD review losses.)
Plan- your goal here is to be able to say something like: in the future, when X happens I will do Y. And this comes from your Analysis step. So you are creating for yourself an intervention based on things you have room to improve on. And it can be helpful to write these down or track them in a spreadsheet and review these notes before your matches.
Practice- and here you want to do intentional practice. So before your matches you are reviewing your notes and thinking to yourself, “Oh yeah, I’ve been losing matches because of X so I need to do Y this time.” It’s also helpful to have some quick phrases that you can think to yourself during matches to get out of your habitual headspace and into a more intentional headspace.
Worrying about the matchmaker short circuits all of that and puts your mindset in the entirely wrong mode. Trying to convince other players that the matchmaker is terrible and responsible for poor game quality makes it less likely that those players will do any of the above and decreases all of our match quality. Essentially, the matchmaker is a red herring. It’s like worrying about the officiating in sports- it’s a good way to lose more matches and have less fun.
I agree with what you wrote. It is very helpful for improving as a player. It will increase your chances of winning, but you are conflating winning/self-improvement with fun.
And people can be of two mindsets - one while playing and one while discussing on the forums. A person executing all those skills and plans in game, can also see ways the game can be improved.
You want to use sport comparisons a lot, so the comparison would be how all sports have changes to their rules over time to better correct an issue. This is only possible because enough people make noise about the issue. Ignoring the issue does not improve the game.
I’m 10-3. Easy games for me. For some reason it dropped me to predicting Bronze 1 after winning my first game. I got pissed, but it placed Gold 4. I’d rather be higher but it’s fine.
5-3 on tank so far after starting out 0-2. It is predicting plat 5 which is where I finished last season. I’ve played at least average in all my games and when I lose it’s usually because of a lackluster dps. This game I outright carried though I had to go 39-5 and we still barely won. 7KSPP6
Why are you not having fun in-game? And how do you expect the matchmaker (any matchmaker) to help with that?
Sure. But you can see how it would be counter-productive to suggest changes to one system when the issues are actually caused by something else. You keep operating as though I don’t want the game to improve. All I’m saying is that if X is the issue, people should really stop worrying about Y. Focusing all our efforts on Y, when Y is actually quite good is nothing but counter-productive.
What bothered me the most, having 3 Mmrs for different roles doesn’t increase the complexity of the system. The system only uses 1 Mmr at a time.
Yes, if we all played solider on the same map, 1v1, I think this match maker would be great. On the flip side that’s why I make suggestions on IN gameplay to help with decisions and why I love things like wave spawning.
The actual complexity, and in non-polynomial time, is more along the lines of the traveling salesman / graph coloring. Imagine everyone in the queue is a destination within a city that each player has to navigate to. So relative to a player there might be a path, but is that path “too long” meaning is that match fair.
What makes it worst let’s say the path is short 2 players and as you wait for two people, five players leave the queue because the system found a match just for those five players. I studied PvsNP and algorithm analysis. So I appreciate algorithm complexity.
“The match maker” gets blamed but really it’s the team balancer that’s the issue. But mush the team balancer in and it all becomes “the match maker”.
Self improvement does help elevate your game, but doesn’t improve match quality. Sometimes the tank differs too much, and sometimes it’s because of people’s mains. Which is why toon balancing is important.
In an ideal world and the issue at hand. A lobby should have players with near exact playtime of ow, skill, map knowledge, toon knowledge, willingness to swap and ping. There’s too much of these factors “ignored” by just looking at wins and losses and stats in game can’t capture this either.
Not if you queue on mulltiple roles at the same time and the matchmaker has to figure out the best combination of players and roles while basically checking all possible combinations.
It should just treat that person as 3 individuals who have avoids with each other. That is a linear increase in complexity which compared to other complexities is not that significant. If the system had the same person multiple times in the same lobby, then yes the combinations jump too high (but that doesn’t happen).
When one of those individuals finds a match (a shortest path was found), then that’s the role they found for that person.
Think of it this way, you can’t sweat 3 people with thousands are in the queue. The meat has to be somewhere else, or maybe to keep it fast it doesn’t even do all possibilities. I can’t begin to know what approximations they do. But the more they do, the faster the queue, maybe the worst the match quality is.
I do find it odd there always seems to be 1 dps not belonging in the lobby. Could be a support too but it’s harder to tell.
As mentioned earlier, it’s the complexity of the game. The skill range within any given player would collapse down to a single value if you made the game Soldier 1v1s on a single map. But given the complexity of the game, the skill range within any given player is quite large. But the matchmaker is tracking a single DPS skill value per player (and a single Support skill value and a single Tank skill value), so if that player loads into a match that is a bad fit for them you get them at their lowest skill level and it looks like they don’t belong in that match.
And that’s before you get into things like players soft or hard throwing for whatever reason and the propensity of players to just blame the matchmaker and give up.
Every time someone types in chat “gg” or “f this matchmaker” or whatever after the very first teamfight, I lament the fact that these notions are so pervasive within the community. They really decrease match quality. If people would simply take a breath, take stock of what’s happening in match, and consider how they could most positively impact the match they are in, the overall match quality in the game would vastly improve. But people would rather give up and blame the matchmaker.