The issue is you can’t really punish him without cc if the ball is good thanks to his speed and extremely high health pool. So you have to go a heavy cc comp just to not feed against ball for most ranks- thats not very fun in any sense.
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Or just chase him with tracer and laugh at his inability to do anything about it. What can ball do to tracer? Pile drive blink to dodge. Overhealth you can only get a little because it’s tracer. Run away. Her cooldown means she can keep up with you. Try it. It’s so funny.
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Sombra should get a rework. Doomfist should get a rework.
Ball is a maybe. I don’t see any particular reason to rework him, but people do not enjoy playing around him so maybe.
Zarya no, people aren’t banning her for the same reasons as Sombra/Doom. I don’t think anything needs to change there necessarily.
Ball just has alot of minor annoyances that stack up. Lots of CC, lots of HP, Lots of Speed and lack of crit opportunities. So hes a bit hard to deal with when you get that one ball that can roll the lobby, but even the average one just gets annoying because you can only kill him when he either messes up or you swap to someone to slow him down. Even for the rest of his own team they don’t see what the ball is doing for them for the most part and just feel they are left without a tank so even they get annoyed unless the ball can actually get some backline picks.
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Judging from how many people find joy from playing him, I can’t agree with you.
The issue is there are many easy skill floor ways to deal with him, you just need to learn a modicum about the game/him/his counters, and this generation of OW2 players just… don’t want to. I get that’s the majority of people, but for someone who has played the game for like 9 years I simply have run out of that much patience when people cry for Sombra or Ball changes (while they need none, the playerbase just needs to mature). I’ve been here, and even reasonable and kind watching this kind of discourse over and over and over again, only to see the devs side with newer players compared to those of us who have stuck with this game from the start and through thick and thin. That sucks.
It’s kind of a slap in the face from them. Every hero should be viable, no hero should be allowed to be perpetually banned/guttered, this game is (and was fundamentally designed to be) about heroes and hero fantasy (and teamwork) over anything else. That’s what makes OW different, that’s the draw for people to play. Losing sight of that or watering it down is a grave mistake, imo. But OW has also always tried to be too many things for too many people.
Brig can 100% Boop or Bash every single one of Ball’s engagements, without exception I’ve had it done to me. Brig can also section off her team with Shield (considering she controls where he can Slam with her Whip) so Ball gets a fraction of the Adaptives, and is much more killable.
Is he any worse than Doom and if not, why are we having this conversation here before we’re talking about Doom? Doom actually gets kills, and still lives, yet here we are.
I fully disagree with you.
Since when in the history of OW has this been the driving factor for changes? How long has Widow or Ana been annoying? People have complained about one-shots and 100% Anti ad nauseum since 2016, yet nothing has ever been done to fix that.
Sombra has had 5 reworks.
How is any Sombra player supposed to look at that and feel?
I frankly will not allow the same rhetoric to happen with Ball and not push back against it. Balancing over annoyance in a hero shooter is both folly and morally bankrupt, because literally everything is annoying (this is wholly subjective) and the witch hunt will come for your hero once all the ‘more annoying’ ones are removed/changed.
Ball does not need a rework.
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Because the thread is about ball. I absolutely loathe doom as well and I consider him to be in the same exact bucket.
I mean, just because the devs havent done anything about it in the past doesnt mean I agree with the decision not to. I dont think that should be a an unarguable precedent. I think anti is less of an issue than a lot of people make it out to be, but I do think Widow has had a huge negative impact on the game at many times, and has too high of a potential to completely lock down games.
I generally disagree with this statement. I think framing it this was is a bit fallacious. The “We cant address annoying thing ‘A’ because one could argue ‘B’ though ‘Z’ are annoying” is a slippery slope fallacy. Even if we can conclude that “everything is annoying,” we certainly know that many things are more annoying than others. The goal should be to address outliers, not just make the game a passively enjoyable experience with participation trophies for everyone. We just need to make sure individual things dont feel too annoying to the point that they just get blanket banned nonstop for it.
I think Ball is only an issue with 6v6 OQ. He’s manageable if not still annoying in 5v5 but with another tank and three support he’s kind of a hemorrhoid on the grey bullseye.
Nah, Sombra can go invisible there is no counterplay to that unless you think randomly shooting at empty spaces is counterplay.
She is not op mind you, at least before the patch. She might be OP now that she got buffed again and can hack while invis. But we will never really know for sure since she is banned in every game.
Ball is not the same. He is very large and you can see him. You can prepare for his engagements and actually have a plan on how to deal with him. If you don’t have a plan or you have a bad plan that’s on you. But I’ll give you a hint it probably involves you having to swap off Widow.
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I’ve been stating he same thing. These bans are going to continue in a cycle of “X character is op because Y character is banned” and nerfs will follow in a chain
They’ll eventually bring every hero down to the same power level. A year from now we’ll be playing COD with abilities
I’ve barely played since bans started, ruins the game for me having to play babywatch 2 where everyone whines about having to check flanks and monitor cooldowns.
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So Ball rework on the menu?
The only menu that matters is the orc menu.
And the only question that matters is if meat is back on it.
So tell us, is meat back on the menu?
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h ttps://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
So go make the same Doom thread for posterity and equality! 
Sure, but you’re willing to speak up about Ball, legitimizing that argument, superceding one where Widow should lose her one-shot. I see more Sombra threads than Widow/Sojourn ones, thus you’re certainly not alone. I agree it doesn’t make them any less of an issue, but media coverage/voting through discussion or vocalization does matter, and you (and I) are still bumping this thread.
I vehemently disagree, and at 100% Anti, I always will. Ana getting JQ’s ultimate on a cooldown is bonkers. I guess you play Ana? Or maybe you don’t play heroes like Hog (or Ball).
I see what you’re getting at, but maybe I can recharacterize/rephrase my point.
The playerbase is fickle and this forum goes on a new witch hunt almost every single month. I’ve seen it happen time and time again. Listening to those people and allowing that to be a driving balancing principle cannot and will not lead to net positive results/will punish certain hero mains unfairly.
Remember what the points are:
- Sombra is not too strong
- Sombra is (now) killable
- Sombra is counterable if I want to do it
- Sombra isn’t winning games
- But I still don’t like her and she needs to be fixed/reworked
Sombra could be replaced with many heroes. Going after heroes like Ball and Sombra ignore bigger game issues and is a band-aid that will have knock-on effects, especially if you don’t balance for what’s overpowered, but you balance for what is unliked over what is unhealthy.
Sombra has had 5 reworks, Widow and Ana have had none.
Again, everyone finds something else annoying. This is a hero shooter, tell me how that’s not baked into the design? Do you/we want to play a fun, dynamic game with unique and colourful characters, or do you want to play COD/Soldier+Sojourn simulator every game?
This is OW, those out-there heroes and kits (even if a little frustrating) that force us to think differently in an ~FPS make this game what it is. If they change Sombra and Ball you’ll start to see the same rhetoric about Mei, and Sym, and Torb, and Lucio, etc. because by that point the complainers will see that complaining works.
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Its really crazy how wrong youll always be on this, not just because of the slippery slope fallacy, but because this oh so destructive slope shouldve already been in effect just for just about every PvP game currently active
Balance, in and of itself, is the un-ending slope. Just about NEVER do these live service PvP games look at their balance and go “Welp, thats it, we solved balance!”
Stop using it as an argument, stop pretending the slippery slope of game destruction is real when it just isnt and has been proven so by not just Overwatch but all PvP games with balance patches and bans.
Whats happening is the game is starting to get better. Bans took out Sombra which low elo hated, and the likes of Doom and to an extent Ball are being widely banned. They are being banned so much because the community at large despises what they do to the game.
I would call those failed designs if they are so universally hated that they become perma bans.
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Ice nine alt not even gonna read your troll responses and ignored you and ice for future reference. Have a good day
PS ignore as in your posts are hidden so enjoy typing your aimless troll responses lmao.
I dont care if he sees or not, just think its funny this mongrel is so delusional he can have his slippery slope garbage shut down so often and still believe it.
Not to mention last time I even replied to this mutt I defended him against Icy calling HIM out as someones alt.
Just so ungodly pathetic. “You keep telling me the same thing I cant refute, youre just a troll lol get muted”
Disgusting reject
Did you make this post just in case there were still one or two people on the forum who might have mistakenly believed you were an adult capable of the barest modicum of emotional maturity and good-faith discourse?
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I didnt make the thread, and I’ve definitely said this many times in other threads numerous times. I’m quite vocal about how much I hate doomfist. I would certainly never expect you to spend the time looking through my post history, but if you did you would certainly see many complaints about doom – probably many more so than ball, tbh. I typically just make periodic comments on front page topics that seem interesting, and today’s flavor happens to be a topic on ball 
I play very little to no Ana. I dont think hog is necessarily up there but I did enjoy playing Mauga. Anti can be brutal but my perosnal opinion is that it has less to do with anti and more to do with the format. I for the most part think 5v5 and solo tanking has completely ruined the game. Anti is definitely much worse in OW2 than it has been in OW1.
FWIW, I dont think the devs should listen to the forums for issues like this – myself included. I’m very much aware that I have a huge bias against heroes like ball/doom/widow. I do not think my opinion is fact by any means. I think the forums can be an echo chamber, but I not necessarily representative of the real world. So even when you see complaints here, it doesnt necessarily get reflected in the game.
If it was all about mistakes and getting g punished for it with ball he would not be banned. 5v5 and tanks being deliberately overtuned simply made him too unpunishable and too forgiving.
No one wants to enagage with him and now they can avoid it all together. I do not think there will ever be a way to change that. His fundamental design is just flawed and people stated this when he was released - the same with doom - thou 6v6 again masked this, but 5v5 highlights it.
Now you do not have the issue of being a post vanilla tank that simply does it all hybrid god, you have the mobility creep, the CC creep and yada yada yada on top of it. A lot of people won’t like that. And I said so, many times, these forums is but an isolated bubble but people will be gunning that ball when they get the chance and people sure did.
Sombra is also funny; coz you knew the surfing force behind the whine was dooms and balls with the whole “hack too long” and than they made the hero punish squishing harder while being a lot more lenient on ball and doom. Now you are all in the same boat. I guess you did manage to drag sombra down in the gutter with you by making her literally hated by everyone, but at the same time she never hade close to the stats to back it up unlike ball and doom, especially ball with his terrific stats.
Thou doom and ball were very much in line of the public opinion, unlike widow. I have stated this many times thou, but yea seeing how the seething on this forums actually have been quite low on ball and doom in general, but very high on widow I guess they are very misleading. Thou if you know you know. These forums always was an isolated bubble of bias with fractions of attachments to the actual game.
I like to be fair and accurate thou. Yea I am gonna self flatter here; but I was right once more. Doom, ball, mercy I called them all. Sombra was a wild card. I neve disagreed she would be a target but did not expect the aggression. All things considered in terms of her balance. I laughed at the widow believers. Unless people can know when someone is hard smurfing or cheating she just ain’t getting a ban over so many other heroes. In the end everyone knows that is the only times things go ape crazy.
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Doom is not getting a rework lol
Im also pretty sure the players in the community dont want him getting reworked either
mainly cause they could make him worse to play against