Say what? Their kit can’t be “forgiving” and high-skill at the same time. The reason you see more Tracer/Genji play the higher in rank you goe is because of the skill requirement.
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But balanced in what way? At what skill level(s)? With variable mastery curves for different characters, it’s possible to balance the game at all levels, but not to balance all of the characters.
Balancing the game across all levels actually does require that the “easy” characters be less effective (relatively speaking) at high skill levels, because otherwise they’re overbearing everywhere else. Some easier characters will have to be underpowered or even unused at high skill levels, similar to Torbjorn and old Symmetra, in order to allow room for the variety of other options.
Brigitte is the obvious example that keeps coming up on the forums. With an exceptionally shallow mastery curve, she’s specifically balanced around the skill level of professional players, in order to make her viable/favorable against more advanced characters being played by the world’s best players. Naturally that means everyone else, who isn’t the world’s best at those more advanced characters, will see her overshadow them.
easy to make thing sound weird by chopping up a statement. Their MODELS make it super easy to avoid damage which is only amplified by their toolkits. It takes a lot more skill to avoid damage with literally every other char in game.
The skill needed is the mechanics of their toolkit which most have to deal with anyway.
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So why do we even have a variety of heroes, if the only determining factor is your “mechanical skill”? Essentially you would end up with the top tiers consisting of 6 heroes (or another small number). The middle-er tiers to have another 6. The lower tiers to have another 6. And the lowest tiers to have another 6.
Then everybody would only play the “top 6” ever, because what’s the point of trying to play the lower skill tier heroes if you’re trying to win?
This line of balancing ONLY around mechanical skill would create a horrible disaster, imo.
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I showed a clip of a player explaining how you outskill a counter to your hero with your hero.
Playing around how heroes work ins’t exclusive to GM. It’s exclusive to improving and playing around the enemies hero choice. Knowing the range of Roadhog’s Primary and Seconday fire and playing within that golden zone can be done by anyone.
Same thing with playing in the Golden Zone around brig right outside of her Shield Bash range and before your Damage Falloff range.
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You have it completely backwards. The “just click her 4Head” meme came from a video defending Mercy 2.0 saying she was countered by good aim. Everyone joked about how it was crazy that no one thought of just aiming better and how that’s such good advice.
Now I’m not saying positioning or gamesense isn’t important, but plenty of DPS and support heroes need those skills just like tanks do, and many need sharp mechanics on top of that.
In my opinion, they should just pick their poison. Balance it for the vast majority of players in gold to platinum. Or Balance it from the top down. At the median, it should hypothetically be possible to balance low skill characters against high skill characters perfectly. At the highest level, well, yes, you are correct, they have to be less effective relatively speaking. My problem is that they make certain decisions for everyone, and ignore the high end players, or they change something for the high end that messes with everyone else. It is obviously tough to balance, but considering character “skill” just adds another obstacle that they should not concern themselves with.
dude this is the overwatch forums, if torb and his turret were the best dps in the game people here would somehow say its okay because it requires “other type of skill” or “aim isnt everything”
Ok, and if I’m blinking/jumping/dashing around everywhere…never getting hit…but also not doing any damage, that means nothing. It’s not like you win matches by spending the entire match not getting shot.
Again, their kit can’t be forgiving and high-skill at the same time. Yes their small models and movement make them hard to hit…but at the same time their movement is what makes their offensive kit very skill dependent.
Or it would just be Call of BattleQuake.
What game are you playing? Both Tracer and Genji regularly get kills while zipping about.
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What thread are you reading? Obviously not the one between myself and Annimositty.
Yes, that thread. Maybe you should learn the meaning of “obvious”.
The only tank that takes as much skill as a high-end DPS is Zarya or maybe Winston / Hammond, IMO.
Coming from a DPS player who has a diamond Tank account, as I find tanking extremely fun, rewarding, and enjoyable.
Why would you not be shooting while your blinking?
Edit: Yes their kit is forgiving. When you can blink away or Dash to some safe high ground after fudging an engagement, that is forgiving. Very few Hero’s have that luxury. For most, it’s do or die.
But at the same time their kit amplifies how hard they are to hit. Baby DVa and Moira are hard to hit yes, but the mobility they have is severly limited so they are easy to pick off.
I have always said if they increased both their model sizes they would be no where near as OP as they can be in the hands of a master.
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People need to stop thinking about heroes in terms of “skill” and start thinking about them in terms of “utility”. Using a hero effectively is familiarity over time, coupled with that particular player’s own skillset. Some people are really good at working with their main tank and know how to make space for them as Mei, McCree or Brigitte, another person who’s normally really good at flanking with Tracer or Genji might completely suck horribly at that same exact thing. It’s about utility, and what you, as an individual, excel at providing.
It’s just a matter of learning hero roles and becoming familiar with actually using their kit, and the strategies associated with them. The “muh skilz” bros are doing the exact opposite of being useful when they try to reduce it down to “high skill vs. low skill” heroes.
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Agreed, getting good value out of genji (for example) is significantly harder than on someone like brig or mercy.
Prove me wrong.
The person I was having the exchange with said that Tracer/Genji kits are “forgiving” due to their small models and movement.
My point was, that while yes, they do indeed have small models and high mobility…that alone does not win matches. You also need to have the mechanical skill to kill stuff while zipping around otherwise their “forgiving kits” which make them hard to hit mean nothing if you are not also securing kills.
Therefore their kits can’t be “forgiving” and high skill at the same time.
Is that “obvious” enough for you?
Only 6 heroes can be played at a time.
Which is ideally distributed in a 2/2/2 comp.
In that, you only want 2 dps, 2 tanks and 2 supports.
If an easy, reliable and consistent character with barely any margin of error like Mercy is just as strong when mastered as Ana is when mastered, then nobody should ever play Ana. There’s no point in wasting your time on a difficult healer when a super easy one yields identical potential reward.
That doesn’t make sense. They are not mutually exclusive. The forgiving aspect of their design Aka their small models+mobility Enables their high skill requirements to secure kills.
Genji needs great aim and CD management and Tracer needs great pivot aim, spacial awareness, and CD management
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