Skewed views regarding “high skill” and “low skill” heroes

General Discussion
41

Ho Ly

As a Mercy specialist, I can tell you that mastering special mechanics in OW was a korean nightmare xD

I really can’t tell if OW2 is easier, but it sure is far more creative.

But the bullying she receives, comes from basically having no offensive capabilities, and just ‘exists’.

And yet, even the top30 supports in the world, are just horrid when playing Mercy. As they just do it for the comp.

Swapping heros to counter enemy, it is not Skill. Its just an advantage.

And of course it is a crime to say that ML7 is a monumental baddie when playing Mercy because most of the players out there will assume that if he is the #1 Ana and Kiriko, then how hard can it be to play Mercy?

The problem with Mercy is that she’s a hero that requires a lot of effort to master in depth, for having such a low impact in the game at the end of the day .

Agency is the keyword.

But she also has other abilities in her kit. Like scouting threats.

And nobody thinks of Mercy as some sort of anti Flankers Radar.

We gotta start understanding the game we are playing, and how different every character is.

And despite flavors, every hero has a player behind it that has only exceeded with it:

Ana - ML7
Kiriko - Kayjii
Doomfist - Zbra
Tracer - Danteh
Brig - Violet
Moira - Arx

They are just examples, and of course there are a lot more players for each one.

But no one wants to see Warn or Yznsa playing Mercy or Lucio. That’s why we have Venta and Frogger xD

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42

Its a flawed premise OP , that type of talking derives from skill floor/ceiling, which are the correct terms used. Those are the parameters heroes are measured in, not general “skill”.

43

There are a number of reasons (especially right now) that people would choose silver Ashe over silver Reinhardt that aren’t solely or even primarily dependent on skill. That’s why we have rank specific metas of characters that perform well in top500, but suck everywhere else (or vice versa).

If you see a “low skill” hero like bastion in top500, you know something is wrong. Why would a top500 player (who is capable of making “high skill” heroes generate insane value) switch over to something that anyone else can play even without the mechanical skill that requirements of “high skill” heroes? It’s because they’re too good at generating value, so much so, that they outperform the difficult to play heroes.

There’s very little nuance to playing Bastion (not many techs/difficult techs to learn) and most of the difficulty comes from knowing who to shoot and who not to shoot (which every hero has to learn what characters they’re good against and which ones they’re not so good against).

That being said, it would make no sense to put in x10 the effort for the same reward. It genuinely ruins the fun when a skilled player is capable of being outclassed by a new player playing a free value hero.

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44

Overwatch doesn’t work like that.

No matter how much “skill” a character requires, OW is a game where skill PLUS strategy wins more often than not. Why play – say – a Reinhardt over Doomfist? While Doom is probably the more skillful character, Reinhardt has utility that Doomfist doesn’t.

Brig is another example. People hate Brig due to how easy she is to use at the skill floor, but Brig is also the single best support in the game at enabling the high-skill heroes other players love. Ana, Tracer, Echo, and Genji are all able to get more value having a Brig on their team than not.

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45

If they were skilled, a new player wouldn’t outclass them. Full stop. Wouldn’t matter the hero.

That’s just someone overestimating their skill and being unable to outplay their counter. It’s a skill check and an ego check.

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46

I find this specific argument a bit disingenuous. Good Doomfist players can absolutely hold an entire enemy team hostage but a good Reinhardt player can’t do the same without significantly more effort involved. Rather DF is picked less often cause his skill floor is higher, meaning someone that hasn’t put the time in to learn the hero properly isn’t going to have a fun time.

Anyone can pickup Reinhardt and get the basics pretty quickly; maybe within a couple hours, but to grasp the basics of Doom requires maybe 10-20 hours on that hero alone, since you need to be aware of every possible interaction with the enemy, your team, and how to play around all of it.

Okay but people are still playing “low skill” heroes in the highest skill bracket of the game, i.e: Overwatch League and World Cup. Clearly they believe there’s no reason to invest effort into Tracer, Sombra, Genji or something else requiring effort cause Bastion and Sym are doing the same for less

47

I really don’t see how any of that goes against or refutes my point at all, though. I’m not talking about overall “value” or “impact” – I’m talking about utility.

No matter how good the Doomfist is, there is literally utility that Reinhardt has that the Doomfist does not.

48

That doesn’t really change much when the same can be said about these “low skill” heroes. You could simply play around a bastion just as easily as you would play around a Genji (if not more easily).

As for strategy, that is something I would consider as “skill.” I can’t really see them as separate things.

That’s not how that works. Not everything is about “ego.” These same skilled players can (and very often, do) mirror the enemy pick and absolutely decimate them because of how free it is to do. It’s about the principal of not being cheesy.

49

I guarantee you that most of the best players out there, have no idea how hard and complex Brig really is, since she is both a preactive and reactive mechanically intense support.

Just like D.Va

People think Doomfist or hammond because of geometry or because punch gets elims, but all those players are getting free cards out of jail 24/7.

In the mean while, if D.Va or Brig fail to manage every source of incoming damage, you are left with 1 less player in the teamfight.

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50

I will make it simple sombra is low skill everyone else is high skill.

Also ball is useless regardless of skill.

51

Not really. Bastion and Genji require different things from their team. Bastion has a lot of damage for applying pressure, but he’s also a hell of a lot more dependent on his team keeping him alive long enough to do it. The entire reason Bastion has been a bad pick until recently is because his massive hitbox and lack of mobility makes him too vulnerable.

Genji is the exact opposite. Genji has all the mobility in the world and much more difficult hitbox, but his best effective range also puts him in immediate danger when he engages.

Then this basically contradicts your entire argument. Building a team strategy to play around a Bastion is a skill.

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52

Nope.

What they believe is at this specific time, for this specific competition, against this specific meta, Bastion gives them the best chance to win money. At pro level, with money on the line, they have no pride, and they’ll play anything for the do re mi.

Never mistake that with the idea that they’re suddenly Bastion one tricks now. As soon as the meta shifts even a little, they’ll drop him like a hot rock. They’ll probably also continue playing Tracer and Genji on the ladder, if they bother with ladder.

53

Exactly my point. Ever since they removed the weakness of the “low skill” Bastion (i.e. giving him that damage reduction and healing buff), he’s become unstoppable while Genji still has to put in the same amount of effort that he did before.

Individual strategy, not team strategy. Team strategy takes into account the skill of your teammates as well, which could either improve or impair your results. I’m more or less thinking about what you can do for your team and not so much what your team can do for you. Like how you can work around them.

54

I can’t believe they gave her a baby safety circle around her so she knows when enemies detect her xD

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55

Bastion is just the symptom of a larger problem. Evidenced by the fact that right now, Bastion has almost entirely disappeared from the Top 500 leaderboards while Genji is utterly thriving there.

Bastion appeared at the top levels to deal with a specific problem, and now that the problem itself is going away, Bastion is less present. That’s how it should work for most of the cast.

Then what I specifically meant by strategy was “team strategy”. In a game like Overwatch, that is supposed to trump “individual strategy”. Three people working towards a coordinated goal and picking characters that optimize that strategy (even if some of those characters aren’t “high skill”) should always beat that one individual unless that individual has a rare moment where he plays out of his mind.

Take a look at the Top 500 leaderboards. That’s happening right now.

56

All skills matters!!!

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57

LOL

I like your attitude, but yeah, many believe that ability can be transported to other characters.

… or even games xD

58

The gatekeepers where mostly ignored until the talent left out of frustration. Then they started hiring trend chasers, and idiots, stripping all Identity this game had.

Now we’re left with yet another “run and gun” death match game that used to be a strategy based back and forth.

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59

This is a really good point. If it’s a hero that you can just pick up and do well with once you hit a certain level, they’re easy. Or at least easiER than other heroes.

It’s why I don’t consider Widow to be difficult. If you have GM aim, you’re a GM Widow. If you have GM aim on Tracer it doesn’t MATTER if you don’t engage well. You’ll get melted regardless of how fast you can melt someone else.

60

High skill and low skill works fine for the layman.

Floor/ceiling is a more precise measurement, but its mostly a buzzword - most streamers actually get it the wrong way round - ceiling is high skill, not low.

For an even more precise definition you need to lean into the Ubisoft method - separating skills into physical (i.e. precision, muscle memory) and mental (observation, tactics etc), then split THOSE into specific requirements for your game (aiming/movement etc)

Skill is a science.

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